From Sina:
16 years old, incredibly swam the last 50 meters of the 400 IM final, faster than men’s champion Ryan Lochte, beat her personal best by 5 seconds, broke the women’s world record for the first time since the high-tech swimsuits ban, swept Asian Games, World Championships and Olympic Games and became the youngest grand slam swimming winner in China… During the interview after the game, Ye Shiwen expressed her excitement and joy, and credited all to her hard work and perseverance. However BBC host Clare Balding implied suspicion and questioned Shiwen’s incredible swim. Her questioning was later criticized by netizens and media.
July 28th, When Clare Balding witnessed Ye Shiwen being crowned the Olympic champion with her 4 minutes 28 seconds and 43 new world record, she hesitated a little at first, then immediately turned to BBC guest commentator former British swimmer Mark Foster, “How many question will there be, Mark, about somebody who can suddenly swim so much faster than she has ever swum before?” Mark obviously heard Clare’s undertone, but he firmly defended Ye Shiwen’s reputation, “It was a five-second best time and it was the way she did it as well. Bearing in mind she is 16 years of age, and when you are young you do some big best times… it can be done.”
Clare’s question was heavily discussed on Twitter later, some audiences were behind Clare, saying she has the courage to imply that it is possible that Ye has cheated; but another group of audiences was angry of Clare belittling Chinese swimmer’s outstanding achievements. Some people even suggested that Clare should resign from her position.
Due to dissatisfied voices intensified online, BBC was under pressure to make an official statement: “The Chinese swimmer had just knocked five seconds off her personal best to break a word record; in her role as a presenter it is Clare’s job to ask the experts (in this case Mark Foster), how she managed to do it”. “There was absolutely no implication of doping."
Due to Ye Shiwen’s last 50 meters freestyle only took 28 seconds 93, which was faster than Ryan Lochte‘s 29 seconds 10, who won the men’s 400 meters medley, many American reporters also could not believe. Ryan Lochte said, “We were all talking about that at dinner last night,” "It was pretty impressive. And it was a female. She’s fast. If she was there with me, I don’t know, she might have beat me.” The U.S. men’s swimming team coach said, “Heck of a swim. You notice stuff like that… You guys can do the research. I think that’s probably the fastest women’s split ever.”
As voices of doubt grew, SwimmingWorldMagazine.com an US based magazine site criticized those who had been speculating about Shiwen.
IT was going to happen. It was only a matter of when, and with how much force. Not minutes after Chinese youngster Ye Shiwen captured the gold medal in the 400 individual medley on the opening night of Olympic competition, accusations started to fly. You know the type. She must be doping.
What a bloody shame.
63 comments
All olympic medalists are doping up on something or another, regardless of country. The question is whether it is a substance which will be detected now or in the future. China, realizing all other nations were doping, started their program as well in the 80s and 90s. After being caught too many times, it upped it game and probably started developing some sort of unknown indigenous dope, thus it no longer gets caught. My theory anyway.
When Chinese Player get Gold in Swim, British news doubt he/she must taking drug, without evidence.
When Chinese Player get equal 2nd postion, they put Chinese National flag under other nation’s flag
When Chinese Player get lose, they disqualify Chinese poor players.
When their Player get nothing, they have to delete the List of Counties by Gold from their website.
Such funny,they get NOTHING to compare !!! NOBODY to compete, and these losers always feel jealous about winner and talk all the bullshits
If she had been from another country, say Japan or Sweden, I doubt the commentator would have made the same comments. China’s history of doping/lying about age, has to make people suspicious.
It’s strange, that in a country where many people can’t swim, they’re winning lots of swimming medals. I guess the same can be said for shooting medals..
Come on, why BBC put all negatives on Chinese Gold Winners and players,
Because they get NOTHING to compare !!!
They feel shame when look at themselves and delete the List of Gold by countries from their BBC website !!!
Hahaha loser always feel jealous about winner and talk all bullshit.
I’d hardly call third place ‘loser’.
no deleting of anything on any BBC website has ever happened with regards to medals!! You are being told lies or you are lying yourself! BBC talk about china with nothing but respect. Trust me I was obsessed with the olympics and watched a lot of BBC coverage and you guys came off very well. And Clare’s comments were only in response to the claims made an American swim coach and american media, so she mentioned it and asked for a swimming expert’s opinions who was very much in China’s favour. Fair and balanced BBC reporting!!
And you must accept that comments like this would happen because your Chinese coaches did disrespect and disgrace the games on a big scale back in the 90s with the doping scandal!!
And we will never be jealous because we will never beat China or USA because of your sizes, coming 3rd is like 1st place for us and we are very happy! 🙂
Ye just broke another record, an OR one in swimming.
The westerners want what she is taking.
Sorry it is Chinese and only in China.
I’m sorry, but it’s a fair question to ask. It’s a biological fact that men are athletically superior to women and you’re going to tell me that this girl beat the split of a world class athlete like Ryan Lochte? China has already proven that they are willing to do whatever to win. Just look at the underaged female gymnasts and how the Chinese government covered it up.
This just leads to a whole another topic of how China has established “medal factories” where they force athletes train day in and day out in the quest for “national glory.” One Chinese swimmer has already spoken out to the news about how draconian their training regiment is with no real fun. Other athletes train for their passion of the sport whereas Chinese athletes are just forced into it. Just look at Yao Ming.
Yao hates his life so much in the USA, he wished he was still on the farms in China.
Anybody asked about Bolts or that 15 year old white swimmer Ruta Meilutyte that won for Lithuania.
And Agnel that beat all the Amerikans.
Wtf u mean “this girl beat the split of a world class athlete like Ryan Lochte?” Because obviously Ye is not a “world class athlete” right? It’s absolute bull crap for people that does not follow swimming to say that Ye achieved her time out of the blue and therefore she’s doped; those are probably the same people that doesn’t know the fact that YE WAS THE 200M WORLD CHAMPION LAST YEAR. Plus, Ryan Lochte’s final time was 4:05.18 while Shiwen Ye’s final time was 4:28.43. Obviously her final 50 will look pretty good in comparison because Lochte was too busy exerting energy and BEATING HER TIME BY 23 SECONDS EARLIER ON IN THE RACE AND WAS TIRED
To be fair, she was doing front crawl/freestyle – her strongest stroke.
And the guy’s last lap, he was cruising. His first split was faster. Also, the overall time, he’s faster by a lot.
So she’s still slower. It’s like a Ferrari on half-throttle during the last stretch, while this little VW GTI redlines all the way.
What, thinking a chinese person was cheating or lying?
Who’d a thunk it.
The world knows China is the most honest, caring, upright country on the planet.
Gabby Douglas is the new black supergirl that the west has elected to represent the USA and no questions asked, she is the greatest since sliced white bread.
Even better than the Chinese and way better than the whitey girls of the west.
DO NOT ask if she is doping or you will be called a racist shit.
“Not two years after setting out on her own, Douglas beat Russia’s Viktoria Komova for the all-around title Thursday night, becoming the third straight U.S. athlete to win gymnastics’ biggest prize and the first African-American to do so. It was her second gold medal of the London Games, coming two nights after she and her “Fierce Five” teammates gave the United States its first Olympic title since 1996.”
If they insist, then just give her a dope test.
Few points i’d like to make:
1. Politics is politics, sports is sports. British invasion, opium war, china human rights, are all politics and have nothing to do with olympic performance.
2. Ye shiwen is cleared of doping by the IOC medical commission. Google it.
2.a) And no, the IOC medical commision chairman, Arne Ljungqvist, is not chinese.
3.b) If you doubt the integrity of the IOC medical commision, then every1’s doping.
3.c) There is no “controversy” regarding Ye’s record breaking results. The only controversies are empty accusations stirred up by some media.
3.a)Note that Tiger woods was “forced” to play golf at the age of two and trained mercilessly by his father.
3.b)Was Ye shiwen “forced” to swim by her parents? Maybe. Did she learn to like swimming? You’d have to ask her. Does she HATE swimming? Certainly not.
3.c)If she was forced to do something she really hates, all she had to do was slack off, and she would’ve been dropped by the scouts of china’s national team.
3.d)Whether she really like the sport or not, her accomplishments were more likely to be driven by the need to escape poverty and into fame and fortune, just like every other athlete. If you ask me, she wouldn’t be able to compete and win at this level if she wasn’t somewhat passionate about the sports.
4. She’s not an inhuman swimming robot produced by a medal factory, as some media would like to potray. She’s a 16 yo athlete who worked hard to get to where she is. She just a 16 year old girl, i bet she has hobbies and have fun like other 16 year olds when she’s not training. If she doesn’t have fun much, then she deserves even more of our respect because of the sacrifices she had to make while other teenagers of her age were having fun.
5.a) China has a large population, thus a larger gene pool for their national team to scout young potentials and start young. That’s not cheating, that’s leveraging your advantage.
5.b) USA is the richest country in the word (in GDP), and the most technologically advanced in sports science and has that advantage in training their athletes. They can start later ’cause they have better science and training methodology. That’s not cheating either, that’s leveraging your advantage.
China isn’t cheating, Ye Shiwen isn’t cheating.
To the rest of the west, pass your congratulations and move on. Let it go, she won it fair and square.
1. Agreed
2. Cleared in what way? IOC has downplayed some of the accusations, but as far as I know, Ye has not been tested. IOC and the WADA have changed their drug testing policy to test specific individuals rather than random testing. Even then, scientists say PED have become more sophisticated and harder to detect. And some athletes have been found to use PED’s well after the fact. Look at Marion Jones.
3. Can’t speak for Ye, but it’s obvious she was forced in the sport and I don’t think she had the same amount as freedom that someone like Tiger Woods had. And there’s one thing to have a parent push you to excel and it’s a completely different thing when A GOVERNMENT selects you, funds your training and development, and dictates your life.
4. Agreed. It’s all the more sadder that the Chinese government has controlled her life and POSSIBLY provided her with PEDs.
5. Population size and GDP are factors in determining medal counts for sure. But another factor? COMMUNISM. You can read it yourself in an article called “The Olympics: Where communism wins” (google it). Like it or not, China has built a “medal factory” and it’s no different than the Soviet Union and East Germany in the 80’s. Communism is highly correlated with countries that win medals? And why? The GOVERNMENT funds and develops these programs and dictate the lives of athletes. Read about the lives of US gymnasts that moved to Texas by choice in order to gain access to the best gyms and coaches. Chinese athletes typically do not have a choice.
This isn’t a USA vs China thing. US athletes have been just as guilty in terms of doping. If China isn’t cheating then what is this?
– China won 12 of the 16 women’s titles at the 1994 world championships in Rome but these achievements were sullied less than a month later when seven Chinese swimmers tested positive for banned drugs at the Asian Games in Hiroshima.
At the 1998 world championships in Perth, four Chinese competitors were sent home after testing positive for steroids. It came a week after one of their team mates and her coach were caught smuggling human growth hormone at Sydney Airport.
– China’s top backstroke swimmer and record holder Ouyang Kunpeng, now 29, was given a lifetime ban after he tested positive for the same substance a month before the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The ban was later changed to two years.
In 2009, five junior Chinese swimmers were banned for two years by the country’s swimming association after they tested positive for the anabolic agent clenbuterol – a performance-enhancing drug.
– And in June Chinese state media said 16-year-old Li Zhesi, part of the country’s winning team at the 2009 World Championships, had tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug, EPO, which boosts the body’s oxygen supplies.
It has been already been PROVEN that China has been willing to falsify records to protect their female gymnasts. So what else are they willing to do??
I rest my case.
2. Could you cite the source of Ye not being tested and IOC/WADA’s changed drug policy? I would like to know. As for the undetectable PED argument, well that’s a presumption of guilt before proven innocent. You can simply accuse any athlete whose country has a history of doping, which is a lot. Like i said, if you doubt the integrity and/or capability of the IOC medical commission then everyone’s guilty of doping, they’re just not being found out yet.
3. Yes, contrary to popular belief chinese athlete have the freedom. Look at Li Na, the famous female chinese tennis player. She used to be under a government sponsored tennis training program. But later she (or her parents) decided that the gov’s training program was unsuitable for her and she opted out and went solo. Her parents funded her training and i think she got corporate sponsors to fund her training too.
4. Again, PED are empty accussations. The gov doesn’t control her. She could gone solo like Li Na, or giveup the sport altogether. But then again afaik going solo on tennis is easier than swimming because of the money required for training. If Yeshiwen’s family is poor then its wiser for her stick with the gov program. Athletes can leave if they want. Same with the coaches. There are quite a few of chinese athletes who got dropped by the national team, emmigrated to other countries and became players/coaches of their new country.
6. From what i learned US athletes are corporate sponsored (nike, addidas, cocacola?, etc), and if their parents can afford it, self-financed. China athletes are gov sponsored and athletes usually stick with the gov program if they’re poor. If the athletes think they know better, plus their family can afford it, they opt out and go solo/independent/self-funded, like Li Na.
Sigh, you said yourself, even you said so yourself, even US athletes have been guilty of doping.
But what you’re saying is that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, since a few bad apples of chinese athletes are the cheating China as a country is cheating too? Just look at (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_performance-enhancing_drugs_in_the_Olympic_Games) there are quite a few US athletes cheating too, can you apply the same logic that US as a country is cheating in the olympics too?
***But the question is not whether OTHER athletes from china cheated.
The question is whether Ye Shiwen cheated/doped to win the gold.
Since IOC commission said she didn’t, well then she’s officially cleared.
If you doubt the integrity and/or capability of the IOC commission, the legitimacy of any other gold medalist, not just china, should be called into question as well.
It’s obvious I’m not going to change your mind and we’d just go back and forth. But I appreciate the intelligent debate. Some things to check out.
IOC testing policies
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/olympics/ioc-anti-doping-chief-defends-chinese-swim-star/article4448360/
Article about the medal factories in China
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2181374/Forging-Mandarin-mermaid-David-Jones-reveals-children-taken-families-brutalised-future-Olympians.html
All athletes from different countries can be guilty of doping.. but the difference is, but athletic programs in the US are personally funded or corporate sponsored. In China, it’s GOVERNMENT SPONSORED. This means that at some level the cheating is government condoned. All these people listed in your wikipedia article most likely doped on their OWN ACCORDANCE. If Chinese athletes are guilty of doping, most likely the Chinese government had a hand in it. You cite Li Na, but she still played for the National team. You think the athletes have control, but they don’t. You think Yao Ming had a choice not to play for the national team? Look what happened to Wang Zhizhi.
I’m not saying that just because a few Chinese athletes are cheating that the entire country is cheated. I don’t have to say because IT’S ALREADY HAPPENED. The Chinese government admitted to falsifying the age of their gymnasts that performed at the 2000 Olympics. 10 years later, they had to relinquish their medals. This happened at the government level! You didn’t even comment on that.. you simply glossed over it.
If you really think the Chinese government will do whatever it takes to win and they want to play fair, you really are lost. And if you really think the IOC is competent.. well I just don’t even know where to start.
But Li Na did left china’s national team and went pro in 2008 after beijing olympics with 3 other chinese tennis players from the national team? why did you say she didn’t? perhaps you’re misinformed.
Its always sad to see children cry. I see a few picture of boys sobbing while stretching, obviously training for gymnastics. plus another a picture of what seems to be a parent with their children in the swimming pool waiting room. And judging from the article it is pretty draconian. But so is Tiger Mom ie demanding asian parents.
Which begs the question: Did the gov kidnap the children to send to this training gulag, or did the parents sent the children there themselves? If the gov kidnapped the children against their parents will, then shame on the gov. If the parents sent the children there themselves, well we cant question what the parents plan for their kids. Good or bad (being a gold medalist or dropped by the national team and/or suffer health consequences in later life), i hope the parents are prepared to reap what they sew in their kids future.
But now having read the article and see how hard the kids trained, the respect i have for Ye Shiwen is going through the roof.
As for the scandal, Yes the chinese gov lied about age, those 14 year olds are clearly better than the 16 year old competitors from other countries.
Its sad that ageism in IOC wouldn’t allow under 16 year olds to compete in the olympics, its even sadder, shameful, and idiotic of china gov resort to fake their birth just to compete. Every country would do anything to win, even resorting to shark fin swimsuit technology (which is now banned). But faking birth is blatantly breaking the rules and there’s no excuse. Ageism or not, we must respect the policy and authority the IOC.
Which brings us back to the main argument. The IOC medical commission says Ye Shiwen is cleared of doping. We’d just have to take their word for it and respect their decision. Why bother play in a sport if you don’t even respect the authority of the judge?
But if you really think the IOC is that incompetent, then i’ll just start by saying every gold medalist is doping, they’re just not caught yet, and the olympics is a waste of everyone’s time.
Maybe, just maybe, god forbid years from now, she’d be found guilty of forging her age, doping, or faking her gener (:P).
Until that day, she is innocent until proven guilty.
Until that day, Ye Shiwen, is still officially, a record holding olympian, and a deserving champion.
@adsfjalk, you made the following comments:
“Which brings us back to the main argument. The IOC medical commission says Ye Shiwen is cleared of doping. We’d just have to take their word for it and respect their decision. Why bother play in a sport if you don’t even respect the authority of the judge?”
“Since IOC commission said she didn’t, well then she’s officially cleared.”
Hmmm! So let’s look at the case of Tyler Hamilton and his gold medal in the bicycling time trial at the 2004 Athens Olympics. Tyler, who I actually used to like before the whole Operacion Puerto case broke wide open in 2006, is a notorious doper.
Tyler failed his blood doping test at the Olympics in 2004. But the IOC Lab in Athens screwed up and ruined his “B” sample. Thus, they couldn’t retest Tyler’s blood; Tyler was allowed to hold onto his gold medal. After the Olympics, Tyler entered the Vuelta a Espana in August 2004, one of bicycling’s big 3 races (the other 2 races are the Tour de France and the Giro d’Italia). He tested positive for blood doping after winning the ITT on Stage 8. USADA suspended him for 2 years until Sept. 2006.
Wait, it gets better. In 2006, news of Operacion Puerto broke. In the report was evidence that Tyler was doping in 2002, 2003 and 2004.
Tyler started competing again in Spring 2006. Then in April 2009, it was revealed that Tyler had failed an out-of-competition PED test. The test revealed that he was taking a banned steroid. This time he was banned for 8 years.
In May 2011 he confessed to doping and taking PEDs during his racing career to a US Federal grand jury.
So, what is the upshot of all this? The IOC has taken no action on Tyler Hamilton and his tainted gold medal. They are now waiting for more info from the USADA on Tyler Hamilton. What a joke!
Wait, the joke continues. In July of 2012, the IOC finally pulled American Crystal Cox’s gold medal in the 4×400 meter during the 2004 Athens Olympics; she admitted in 2010 to taking steroids during the years 2001-2004. Cox was an alternate on her team. So it takes 2 years to deal with Cox? And the venerated IOC, its medical commission and the IAAF missed this steroid case 8 years ago?? Furthermore, the IOC took away only Cox’s medal. The other 4×400 meter relay team members still have their gold medal and first place finish.
So, @adsfjalk, you respect the decisions of the IOC and its medical commission? Really? And Ye has been officially cleared? Cleared by whom? Oh, yeah, an organization, the IOC, that appears to be amateurish, at best. Personally, I have no trust or confidence in the amateurish, incompetent, cowardly IOC and their drug policy. Rogge and Arne Ljungqvist should be ashamed of themselves!
What is sad for Ye is that the IOC incompetence stains and taints what she accomplished. Is she innocent? I doubt that we will ever really know, no matter how much Ljungqvist waves his arms about and protests. Unfortunately, his lack of credibility casts major doubts on Ye. His defense of Ye is meaningless and merely a feeble attempt at CYA.
It all boils down to trust.
No one would want to participate in a sport if it is evident that the judge is outright unfair.
The fact that so many countries want to participate in the olympics is proof that the international community has some level of trust in the IOC and the WADA.
I’m sure anti-doping methology and technology, plus the list of banned substances will continue to improve/change with time. But a few isolated incidents, like the ones you’ve listed, just really isn’t enough to discredit the entire IOC.
I’d like to reiterate, if you really think the IOC is that incompetent, then every medalist is doping, they’re just not found out yet.
As for Ye shiwen. It’s sad that some people aren’t simply raising suspicion but rather implying/jumping to conclusion that she’s doping. Its good to see that there are still people who believe otherwise (http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/USA/31424.asp?q=Doubts-Surrounding-Ye-Shiwen-a-Sad-State-of-Affairs)
Ye is only 16. No doubt she’ll participate in a lot competition till the next olympics. If she’s doping time will tell.
In mean time, let her keep her glory, and have the luxury of innocence till proven guilty.
@adsfjalk
“No one would want to participate in a sport if it is evident that the judge is outright unfair. The fact that so many countries want to participate in the olympics is proof that the international community has some level of trust in the IOC and the WADA.”
There is a certain amount of fairness and some level of trust in how they operate the games. So? Not much of a standard of excellence, if you ask me.
But when it comes to stopping cheats, they are substandard. Fortunately (as a baseball and cycling fan) MLB (Major League Baseball) and UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale, the cycling organization, International Cycling Union) have risen above the doping and PED morass which plagued baseball and cycling. They knew that their reputation was in the toilet. And they did something about it.
ASO and UCI (Amaury Sports Organization) put on a wonderful Tour de France this year. Virtually drug free. ASO even caught Frank Schleck, who finished in 3rd at the 2011 TDF, taking a banned diuretic, Xipamide. Frank withdrew from the race voluntarily. Baseball went after the NL MVP, Ryan Braun, for a positive PED test. Baseball lost the arbitration hearing. These organizations were willing to go after top athletes.
Would that the IOC had the chutzpah to go after some of its gold medal winners in a timely manner.
“I’m sure anti-doping methology and technology, plus the list of banned substances will continue to improve/change with time.”
And I am dead sure that the cheats and doping/PEDs manufacturers will improve their methodology and technology in evading positive tests. It is a never ending cat & mouse game/
In the case of Leonard’s stated doubts about Ye’s performance, they come from years of experience in the world of swimming and coaching.
“I’d like to reiterate, if you really think the IOC is that incompetent, then every medalist is doping, they’re just not found out yet.”
Your syllogism does not become less absurd or hyperbolic with each passing iteration. There are cheaters for sure and there are honest participants. Your illogic is just too much. Do you really believe if the laws were unevenly or never enforced, that everyone would be a criminal? I don’t think so. If it were so, maybe China, a land without the rule of law, would be chock full of criminals. I don’t think so. Sounds crazy to me.
Your anti-china sentiments are duly noted. i think chinese people are people too, i just dont think much about their gov. Leonard isn’t even the coach of Team USA, and Team USA have done the right thing by distancing themselves from him.
Sports is sports, politics is politics. Im trying to keep our interesting discussions more about sports and less about politics.
You seemed to be very distrustful of the IOC.
Having said all that could be said, allow me to ask you this: are you open to the notion/possibility that Lochte is a cheat that’s using some superdrug that couldn’t be detected by the IOC (since they’re so incompetent), and we should all look at Lochte in a different light since he is not a champion that hasn’t been proven guilty, but rather a cheat that hasn’t been found out yet?
I appreciate and respect your opinion, in the risk of sounding incredibly rude, i have to apologize but i’m afraid i have to voice my suspicion that your strong sentiments towards china have clouded your judgement in the verdict of this young 16 year old athlete.
Ye have been proven clean so far and the only thing she’s guilty of is representing an unpopular country.
So many people have already stood up in defence of this 16 year old girl.
Ye Shiwen doping: The unfair smear campaign against the Chinese swimming sensation. – Slate Magazine
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/fivering_circus/2012/08/ye_shiwen_doping_the_unfair_smear_campaign_against_the_chinese_swimming_sensation_.html
2012 London Olympics — IOC defends China’s Ye Shiwen after record-setting 400 medley – ESPN
http://espn.go.com/olympics/summer/2012/swimming/story/_/id/8217440/2012-london-olympics-ioc-defends-china-ye-shiwen-record-setting-400-medley
British 2012 Olympics Chief: Ye Shiwen is clean, end of story – YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RkGCWVfa0E
IOC, FINA and others defend Chinese swimmer Ye
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/olympics/2012/07/31/fina-ioc-defend-chinese-swimmer.ap/index.html
Ye Shiwen: Coach John Rudd slams John Leonard over 2012 Olympic doping claims – YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS8sDgS9X34
and many more ….
The British2012 olympics chief, the IOC medical commission chairman, the IOC spokesperson, all spoke up in defence of this young athlete. If all this isn’t evidence of her innocence (so far), then, sigh, i really don’t know what is.
After all that’s been said, if people find the olympics such a sham/scam, maybe is better for everyone if they just change the channel.
@adsfjalk
Thanks for your courteous reply the other day. Let me explain where I am coming from on the PEDs/doping issues in sports before I answer your questions.
I am a big cycling and baseball fan. For a long time, Major League Baseball (MLB) and professional cycling were rife with PEDs, HGH, blood doping (EPO and the like), steroids and the drugs to mask them. MLB’s and cycling’s reputations and credibility were in tatters. Finally, after much prodding from the incumbent humiliation, governments threatening them, the medical world exposing the dangers and the media hounding them, they started to address the long-ignored drug issues in the MLB and cycling.
The crackdown has been very painful. Let me name a few cyclists I liked and trusted: Richard Virenque of France, Tyler Hamilton & Floyd Landis of the USA, Michael Rasmussen of Denmark, Ivan Basso of Italy, Alberto Contador of Spain, Alexander Vinokourov & Andrej Kashechkin of Kazakhstan, David Millar of Great Britain, Jan Ullrich of Germany, Laurent Fignon of France and Bjarne Riis of Denmark. All top level cyclists, all involved with illegal PEDs. Some, such as Millar, Fignon, Riis, Basso, Vino and Virenque came back after PED use and redeemed themselves.
I liked and respected these guys. I was wrong. They were cheating. Cheating big time! It was a lot of tough pills to swallow.
Now with baseball, let me name some players I respected and liked: Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Roger Clemens, Manny Ramirez, Ryan Braun, Alex Rodriguez, Rafael Palmeiro, Mike Cameron, just to name a few. They all used PEDs, steroids, HGH, etc. More tough pills to swallow. Ryan got off in an arbitration hearing. He was not vindicated, just acquitted.
My boyhood hero, Pete Rose, of my favorite team, the Cincinnati Reds gambled and consorted with mobsters. Ouch! I had my picture taken with Pete many years ago when I was 19 years old.
So you ask, “are you open to the notion/possibility that Lochte is a cheat”? You bet I am. I have been bitten too many times. But I pick myself up after every disappointment and move on. Am I afraid of “losing face” and do I have a fear of being wrong? No, not at all; it’s not my culture. Being wrong, being disappointed, having regrets are all part of life, as painful as they are sometimes.
I was even wrong about Joe Paterno of Penn State. I thought he was a good guy. Boy was I wrong.
I like NFL football. Don’t get me started on the massive steroid/PEDs use in the NFL. We are also discovering how massive, dangerous and too many times fatal are the issues surrounding concussive and repeated sub-concussive blows.
I currently have no reason yet to question the other Chinese athletes. But Ye’s greatly enhanced performance raises red flags for me. I have seen it way too many times for way too many years in the sports I follow. Yes, I am a suspicious person, rather cynical and sarcastic, too.
Regarding China, my disgust is for the CCP, which arbitrarily rules China and the multitude of members using the power of the CCP to enrich themselves personally and dramatically at great cost to the Chinese people and China’s environment.
The IOC and the various participating organizations have not cleaned house yet. MLB and UCI (the international cycling organization) have cleaned house, rather painfully so. It takes a lot of guts and soul-searching to clean house.
Yeah people have stood up in defense of Ye. That is their right. But when GBOC, IOC, FINA, USA Swimming and others, stood up, they had giant conflicts of interest in doing so. Probably a lot of CYA.
BTW, I have only watched and followed cycling, tennis, and basketball at the Olympics. Swimming and gymnastics does not do much for me.
People are free (well at least in certain countries) to have their own opinions and express them. If I disagree with someone’s opinion and if people disagree with me, so be it. If they don’t like me because they don’t like my opinion, well, there is not much I can do about that.
I don’t care if my opinions are in the minority. Freedom of speech is not a popularity contest.
…
@adsfjalk
“No one would want to participate in a sport if it is evident that the judge is outright unfair. The fact that so many countries want to participate in the olympics is proof that the international community has some level of trust in the IOC and the WADA.”
There is a certain amount of fairness and some level of trust in how they operate the games. So? Not much of a standard of excellence, if you ask me.
But when it comes to stopping cheats, they are substandard. Fortunately (as a baseball and cycling fan) MLB (Major League Baseball) and UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale, the cycling organization, International Cycling Union) have risen above the doping and PED morass which plagued baseball and cycling. They knew that their reputation was in the toilet. And they did something about it.
ASO and UCI (Amaury Sports Organization) put on a wonderful Tour de France this year. Virtually drug free. ASO even caught Frank Schleck, who finished in 3rd at the 2011 TDF, taking a banned diuretic, Xipamide. Frank withdrew from the race voluntarily. Baseball went after the NL MVP, Ryan Braun, for a positive PED test. Baseball lost the arbitration hearing. These organizations were willing to go after top athletes.
Would that the IOC had the chutzpah to go after some of its gold medal winners in a timely manner.
“I’m sure anti-doping methology and technology, plus the list of banned substances will continue to improve/change with time.”
And I am dead sure that the cheats and doping/PEDs manufacturers will improve their methodology and technology in evading positive tests. It is a never ending cat & mouse game/
In the case of Leonard’s stated doubts about Ye’s performance, they come from years of experience in the world of swimming and coaching.
“I’d like to reiterate, if you really think the IOC is that incompetent, then every medalist is doping, they’re just not found out yet.”
Your syllogism does not become less absurd or hyperbolic with each passing iteration. There are cheaters for sure and there are honest participants. Your illogic is just too much. Do you really believe if the laws were unevenly or never enforced, that everyone would be a criminal? I don’t think so. If it were so, maybe China, a land without the rule of law, would be chock full of criminals. I don’t think so. Sounds crazy to me.
Few points i’d like to make:
1. Politics is politics, sports is sports. British invasion, opium war, china human rights, are all politics and have nothing to do with olympic performance.
2. Ye shiwen is cleared of doping by the IOC medical commission. Google it.
2.a) And no, the IOC medical commision chairman, Arne Ljungqvist, is not chinese.
2.b) If you doubt the integrity of the IOC medical commision, then every1’s doping.
2.c) There is no “controversy” regarding Ye’s record breaking results. The only controversies are empty accusations stirred up by some media.
3.a)Note that Tiger woods was “forced” to play golf at the age of two and trained mercilessly by his father.
3.b)Was Ye shiwen “forced” to swim by her parents? Maybe. Did she learn to like swimming? You’d have to ask her. Does she HATE swimming? Certainly not.
3.c)If she was forced to do something she really hates, all she had to do was slack off, and she would’ve been dropped by the scouts of china’s national team.
3.d)Whether she really like the sport or not, her accomplishments were more likely to be driven by the need to escape poverty and into fame and fortune, just like every other athlete. If you ask me, she wouldn’t be able to compete and win at this level if she wasn’t somewhat passionate about the sports.
4. She’s not an inhuman swimming robot produced by a medal factory, as some media would like to potray. She’s a 16 yo athlete who worked hard to get to where she is. She just a 16 year old girl, i bet she has hobbies and have fun like other 16 year olds when she’s not training. If she doesn’t have fun much, then she deserves even more of our respect because of the sacrifices she had to make while other teenagers of her age were having fun.
5.a) China has a large population, thus a larger gene pool for their national team to scout young potentials and start young. That’s not cheating, that’s leveraging your advantage.
5.b) USA is the richest country in the word (in GDP), and the most technologically advanced in sports science and has that advantage in training their athletes. They can start later ’cause they have better science and training methodology. That’s not cheating either, that’s leveraging your advantage.
China isn’t cheating, Ye Shiwen isn’t cheating.
To the rest of the west, pass your congratulations and move on. Let it go, she won it fair and square.
Americans are just butthurt a little Chinese girl swam faster than wannabe hood gangsta from upstate NY, Lochte. lololol.
We here in Canada know that even a China girl can better any whitey boy in anything.
Suck it up whiteys, Chinese will be on top and get use to it.
With so much money, prestige, etc. on the line, there will always be a certain amount of cheating and cheaters.
There is perpetual competition between those creating “designer drugs/PEDs” and those trying to create drug tests to detect the latest “designer drugs/PED being used by certain athletes who are cheating. At the same time, organizations like the IOC, MLB, MLB Players Assoc., UCI, ASO, WADA, USADA et al who are employing the drug tests, implement anti-doping and anti-PED programs/systems, setting rules to both catch and prevent cheating.
Some organizations seem to be doing a better job than others. UCI, WADA, and MLB seem to be more sophisticated than others. They rose to the crises that plagued them, met the challenges they faced and succeeded. Nonetheless, they must remain vigilant.
When I consider American cheats, Marion Jones, Tyler Hamilton, Floyd Landis, Barry Bonds (and the whole Victor Conte/BALCO affair), Manny Ramirez, Mark McGwire and Marlon Byrd, come to mind. When it comes to pro cyclists who doped, I think of Alex Vinokurov, Alberto Contador, Ivan Basso (think Operacion Puerto), Richard Virenque (Festina controversy), Frank Schleck (took banned diuretics which mask PEDs/doping), David Millar, Riccardo Ricco and Michael Rasmussen.
I do not know the details of the IOC anti-PED programs, but I doubt that they are as sophisticated as UCI, ASO and MLB.
From the Guardian UK:
Ye Shiwen’s world record Olympic swim ‘disturbing’, says top US coach
Andy Bull at the Aquatics Centre
guardian.co.uk, Monday 30 July 2012 21.16 BST
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/30/ye-shiwen-world-record-olympics-2012?newsfeed=true
China has become embroiled in the first doping controversy of the London Games after one of the world’s most respected coaches described the swimming prodigy Ye Shiwen’s gold medal performance as “unbelievable” and “disturbing”.
The American John Leonard, executive director of the World Swimming Coaches Association, said the 16-year-old’s performance was “suspicious” and said it brought back “a lot of awful memories” of the Irish swimmer Michelle Smith’s race in the same event at the Atlanta Olympics in 1996. Smith, now Michelle de Bruin, was banned for four years in 1998 after testing positive for an anabolic steroid.
Ye stunned world swimming on Saturday by winning gold in the 400m individual medley in a world-record time. It was her final 100m of freestyle, in which she recorded a split time of 58.68sec, that aroused Leonard’s suspicion. Over the last 50m she was quicker than the American Ryan Lochte, who won the men’s 400m individual medley in the second-fastest time in history.
“We want to be very careful about calling it doping,” said Leonard, who is also the executive director of the USA Swimming Coaches Association.
“The one thing I will say is that history in our sport will tell you that every time we see something, and I will put quotation marks around this, ‘unbelievable’, history shows us that it turns out later on there was doping involved. That last 100m was reminiscent of some old East German swimmers, for people who have been around a while. It was reminiscent of the 400m individual medley by a young Irish woman in Atlanta.”
Leonard is the first major figure in the swimming world to go public with suspicions over Ye’s performance. London 2012 organisers and the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) have insisted that anyone cheating at the Games would be caught, with a record 6,250 tests being carried out.
About half of the 10,500 athletes, including all medal winners, will be tested for 240 banned substances. But Wada has also repeatedly raised concerns about athletes who may be successfully doping out of competition, drawing a distinction between them and “dopey dopers” who are caught during a major championships.
Stephanie Rice, the Australian who won gold in both women’s medley events in Beijing in 2008, described Ye’s performance as “insanely fast”. Ariana Kukors, the 2009 world 200m medley champion from the US, has said it was “amazing” and “unbelievable”.
Leonard, who said Ye “looks like superwoman” added: “Any time someone has looked like superwoman in the history of our sport they have later been found guilty of doping.”
His comments are liable to further increase tensions between China – which has poured huge resources into its sporting programmes in recent years and topped the US in the medal table for the first time in Beijing four years ago – and the Americans.
Ye was more than seven seconds faster in the Olympic 400m individual medley final than she had been in the World Championship equivalent last July.
Leonard said that although this vast improvement was possible, it would be very hard to achieve. “But the final 100m was impossible. Flat out. If all her split times had been faster I don’t think anybody would be calling it into question, because she is a good swimmer. But to swim three other splits at the rate that she did, which was quite ordinary for elite competition, and then unleash a historic anomaly, it is just not right.”
Asked about the accusation that she was doping, Ye replied: “The Chinese team keep very firmly to the anti-doping policies, so there is absolutely no problem.”
Leonard also questioned why Ye was not competing in the 200m or 400m freestyle, despite her phenomenal performance in that discipline in the medley, saying that was one of “a whole bunch of other questions”.
He has been executive director of the WSCA since 1989. “I have been around swimming for four-and-a-half decades now,” he said. “If you have been around swimming you know when something has been done that just isn’t right. I have heard commentators saying ‘well she is 16, and at that age amazing things happen’. Well yes, but not that amazing. I am sorry.”
Leonard said that the consensus in the coaching community he represents was that the swim was “unbelievable”. “I use that word in its precise meaning. At this point it is not believable to many people,” he added.
“No coach that I spoke to yesterday could ever recall seeing anything remotely like that in a world level competition,” Leonard continued. “Where someone could out-split one of the fastest male swimmers in the world, and beat the woman ahead of her by three-and-a-half body lengths. All those things, I think, legitimately call that swim into question.”
Ye also won the 200m medley at the World Championships in 2011, and qualified fastest for the semi-finals of that event in Monday morning’s heats, in a time that was 1.61sec quicker than her nearest competitor.
Leonard also argued that it was fair to point to the positive tests incurred by Chinese athletes in the past. In 2009 five junior Chinese swimmers were banned after testing positive for the anabolic agent clenbuterol at the 2008 national junior championships.
“You can’t turn around and call it racism to say the Chinese have a doping history,” Leonard said. “That is just history. That’s fact. Does that make us suspicious? Of course. You have to question any outrageous performance, and that is an outrageous performance, unprecedented in any way, shape or form in the history of our sport. It by itself, regardless of whether she was Chinese, Lithuanian, Kenyan, or anything else, is impossible. Sorry.”
Leonard rejected comparisons to Michael Phelps, who broke the 200m butterfly world record when he was just 15, back in 2001 because the American got “consistently faster every year on a normal improvement curve”.
He said he had no qualms about the performance of other Chinese swimmers, including the new Olympic 400m freestyle champion Sun Yang, 20. “He has a perfectly normal improvement curve, he is a dramatically spectacular athlete in our sport and I’ve no question about him at all. But a woman does not out-swim the fastest man in the world in the back quarter of a 400m IM that is otherwise quite ordinary. It just doesn’t happen.”
… Please go to the link to read more if you wish.
the US Olympic committee has now distanced itself from Leonard’s comments. Pls go look it up.
Also, pls check out how the woman was in fact slower than the guy overall. only the last split was faster, because she was doing her strongest stroke, the front crawl, and the other guy was cruising – he was much faster in the first splits.
Yet the media spins it as if she swam faster than a male athlete.
No, the media did not spin it as if she swam faster than a male. Most reports cited the individual last split. Hmmm??
“In a survey by the Guardian, 98 percent of netizens agreed that American coach John Leonard should apologize to Ye Shiwen for his irresponsible comments on her performance. John Leonard hinted that Ye Shiwen improved her performance by taking drugs.”
FIRE THE WHITEY BUM.
@voiceofhomer:
Wow, I am impressed! So what? Was this a scientific poll?
Last time I checked, America and your country, Canada, still have freedom of speech. No matter how many people disagree with a person stating his opinion. Do they have freedom of speech in China? Hmmm…
If Leonard wants to apologize, then he may do so. I found that his remarks were thoughtful and thought-provoking.
I guess I am just a “whitey bum”, too. A Russian Jewish American “whitey bum” at that!
Funny that the “whitey bum”, Leonard, also said, “… he had no qualms about the performance of other Chinese swimmers, including the new Olympic 400m freestyle champion Sun Yang, 20. “He has a perfectly normal improvement curve, he is a dramatically spectacular athlete in our sport and I’ve no question about him at all. But a woman does not out-swim the fastest man in the world in the back quarter of a 400m IM that is otherwise quite ordinary. It just doesn’t happen.” Hmmm … a conundrum! I wonder how you resolve that?
It sounds to me like you are just some racist putz. Not surprised.
If you can’t stand dissent or somebody having an opinion which differs from yours, maybe you should move to China. I understand that the CCP doesn’t like dissent either. You would feel right at home. Maybe they would even let you be a “chengguan”. Then you could beat the crap out of people who disagree with you! I bet that would be a thrill for you!
“Was this a scientific poll?”
You need to know the real science behind Ye’s win.
Don’t be a smartass about it.
———————————————————————————————————
Lochte was 23 seconds faster than Ye overall. She only swam faster than him in the final stage – freestyle.
The comparison with Lochte just isn’t that telling. It’s not the first time that Lochte has been slower than a woman over the last leg of that race. In Beijing in 2008 when he won bronze, he was slower than the Italian Alessia Fillipi – by more than half a second – and she only came fifth in her own race.
Lochte simply paced himself over the race very differently to Ye Shiwen.
Dr Ross Tucker from the Sports Science Institute at the University of Cape Town warns against reading too much into the comparison with Lochte.
“Lochte didn’t swim [the last leg] as fast as some of the other men in that same race. Ye’s performance compared to the best men for that leg was maybe not that impressive,” he says.
Tucker points out that Rebecca Adlington swam faster than both Lochte and Ye in the final leg of the 800m freestyle at the world championships last year.
“The point is,” he says, “that analysing performance and trying to prove doping is a futile task.”
He does comfirm, however, that Ye Shiwen’s performance was exceptional.
“At the last world championships, the top five swimmers of the 400m individual medley are doing the final 100m freestyle about 18-20% slower than the 100 freestyle world record – whereas Ye Shiwen was about 12% slower.”
@voiceofhomer, you wrote “In a survey by the Guardian, 98 percent of netizens agreed that American coach John Leonard should apologize to Ye Shiwen for his irresponsible comments on her performance. John Leonard hinted that Ye Shiwen improved her performance by taking drugs.”
I then asked, “Was this a scientific poll?”
You responded, “You need to know the real science behind Ye’s win. Don’t be a smartass about it.”
Do you even know what scientific opinion polling is, smartass?
Whether or not the Guardian opinion survey was scientific, we are still talking about opinions. A scientific opinion poll could tell us, with a degree of confidence, the percentages of how people responded to the questions asked.
And remember, a preponderance of opinion is not a preponderance of evidence. And certainly not proof of anything.
Now regarding your chosen euphemism, “real science”:
Hunter is a South African exercise physiologist who blogs a lot. He is not talking science here; he is giving his opinion. I agree that you can’t prove doping or PEDs use by performance analysis. But her 7 second dramatic improvement in the 400 IM over her own times last year raises doubts. Doubts, not proof. Proof is a far more rigorous standard.
Questions I still have: Did she wear a high-tech skinsuit when she raced last year? What were her VO2 max readings over the past few years? Has she been tested for doping/PEDs use? When? Was she tested after her 2012 Olympics 400 m IM final win? What is her body mass index in comparison to other elite female swimmers?
Several points from the Guardian article I posted: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/30/ye-shiwen-world-record-olympics-2012?newsfeed=true
John Leonard noted: “It was her final 100m of freestyle, in which she recorded a split time of 58.68 sec, that aroused Leonard’s suspicion. Over the last 50m she was quicker than the American Ryan Lochte, who won the men’s 400m individual medley in the second-fastest time in history.”
That is very suspicious.
“Ye was more than seven seconds faster in the Olympic 400m individual medley final than she had been in the World Championship equivalent last July.
Leonard said that although this vast improvement was possible, it would be very hard to achieve. “But the final 100m was impossible. Flat out. If all her split times had been faster I don’t think anybody would be calling it into question, because she is a good swimmer. But to swim three other splits at the rate that she did, which was quite ordinary for elite competition, and then unleash a historic anomaly, it is just not right.””
That is even more suspicious.
This takes me back to 1968, when I was a teenager. Bob Beamon, at the Mexico City Olympics, was competing in the long jump. Beamon won the long jump with an incredible world record jump of 8.90 meters (29′ 2.5″), breaking the old record of 8.35 meters (27′ 4.74″). He broke the record by 55 cm (21.66 inches). To put that in perspective, from 1901 to 1968, the record had been broken 13 times by an average of 6 cm (2.36 inches), with the largest increase being 15 cm (5.91 inches).
There were some environmental factors aiding Beamon’s jump. He was jumping in the thin, dry air of Mexico City at an altitude of 2,240 m (7,349 feet; 1.392 miles). Furthermore, his jump was aided by a 2 m/sec tailwind (approx. 5 mph; approx 7 kmh). 2 m/sec is the maximum tailwind permitted.
Sorry no PED, steroid and blood doping tests back then. But PEDs, steroids and blood doping were in their infancy in 1968.
The commentator didn’t have to have such a sarcastic undertone and a prick about it.
Whatever the hell happened to innocent until proven guilty.
How’s that different from seeing a black guy in a Ferrari and asking, “did he steal that car?” Cos no way he could have worked for that. He’s earning more in the last 6 months than a white guy who has a college degree. So nigga must be dealing dope, that fucker! Congratulate him on his success? No way!!! Lynch mob!!!
The low self-esteem Chinese people are so sensitive when it comes to national honor. During the olympic games there is a serious patriotism alert all over China.
“How many question will there be, Mark, about somebody who can suddenly swim so much faster than she has ever swum before?”
A valid question that was well answered. Stop crying and move on.
exactly
I think it is very likely that Ye Shiwen is drug free. Otherwise, she would not have been chosen to represent China in the Olympics. Li Zhesi, another 16 year old, tested positive for EPO in March and was not allowed to come to London by the Chinese sporting authority, even though she was part of the 4x100m medley relay team that won gold at the 2009 Swimming World Championships in Rome.
Check out this article on Li Zhesi:
http://hopewelljournal.com/2012/06/chinese-swimmer-li-zhesi-tested-positive-for-performance-enhancing-drug/
@Thomas D
Your Ferrari-VW simile fails to represent the issue with the final split. Her other splits were plain ordinary for an elite swimmer (not redlining). Furthermore, her time was 7 seconds faster than a year ago, an unbelievable jump in performance.
Regarding the USOC distancing itself from Leonard, this is what USA Swimming (USOC swimming authority) actually said (in a typical and truly political manner):
“In a statement, USA Swimming said that “John Leonard … is not an employee, representative or spokesperson for USA Swimming, nor is he a member of the U.S. Olympic Swim Team or a part of the U.S. delegation here in London.”
USA Swimming had no comment about the substance of Leonard’s allegations, spokeswoman Karen Linhart said.”
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-on-ye-shiwen-doping-20120731,0,3732206.story
Nice try with your false insinuation, Thomas, that the USOC was distancing itself from Leonard’s comments. It was just a disclaimer and made no mention of Leonard’s comments. NO SALE!!
Even worse was your conflating racism/profiling against blacks with the Ye issue. Leonard “said he had no qualms about the performance of other Chinese swimmers, including the new Olympic 400m freestyle champion Sun Yang, 20.” Doesn’t sound like racism to me. Sounds to me like your misstatements and falsehoods are ruining your credibility.
@east2west
Li Zheshi may have been a sacrificial lamb to build the credibility of the Chinese ADA. Just because the Chinese ADA threw us a bone is no proof that Ye has not taken PEDs or blood doping. Your syllogism is illogical.
Chinese should demand this BBC commentator Clare Balding get sent home to Nazi Germany.
China needs to get Michael Phelps tested.
The other swimmers behind him always smell dope coming from Phelps feet.
Claire Balding being a butch lesbo just wants her hand on the little virgin, sick bitch…jokes apart. The only drugs Chinese have been taking is Dong Quai and ginseng……and besides records are there to be beaten….fuck all the countries which shit on china…jelous bastards.
One of the reasons for the suspicion is that China, broadly, don’t endear themselves to the foreign eye by competing in the true spirit of the Olympics — witness the badminton players thankfully disqualified by their disgraceful match-throwing behaviour…:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19072677
…appaling. The whole crowd booing them as they hit the shuttlecock wide, or into the net, and yet they just calmly continued to cheat. Robots or what?
Matt.
umm, aren’t we suppose comment about the article, which is about ye’s record breaking swim?
btw, news just in
IOC to media about Chinese doping suspicions: ‘Get real’
—————————————————————————-
“We need to get real,” IOC spokesman Mark Adams said Tuesday. “These are the world’s best athletes. The first five athletes (who place in competitions) are tested. We have a very strong drug testing program. If there are cheats, we will catch them. … We can’t stop speculation. It is a sad result that there are people who dope and cheat. It is equally sad if we can’t applaud a great performance.”
—————————————————————————-
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/london/swimming/story/2012-07-31/china-swimmer-doping-ioc-olympics/56604662/1
so no, china didn’t cheat in london olympics.
@jojo
“so no, china didn’t cheat in london olympics.”
That is one of the most illogical statements here and a most amazing, athletic leap to an unwarranted conclusion! Bravo! (brava if you are female)
The IOC is trying to defend its turf and its show? Maybe! Definitely not news; it is old as the hills.
“umm, aren’t we suppose comment about the article, which is about ye’s record breaking swim?”
Last time I checked, I am still an American. I will still freely state my opinions. And you are free to do the same. Freedom of speech; ain’t it great. China should try that some day!
Whether people have doubts or not about her performance doesn’t make it OK to very publicly drag her name through dirt when there is no proof. I have also seen articles rubbishing the claims, so I wouldn’t assume that the controversy is 1 sided. Chinese people should remember that Newspapers in the Western World are there to sell papers and they tend to focus on the bad and the controversial, they are also free to print pretty much what they like. If someone in a position of some sort of authority is prepared to go on record making a controversial statement, the press will print it.
Leave her alone.
Come on, why BBC put all negatives on Chinese Gold Winners and players,
Because they get NOTHING to compare !!!
They feel shame when look at themselves and delete the List of Gold by countries from their BBC website !!!
Hahaha loser always feel jealous about winner and talk all bullshit.
Come on, why BBC put all negatives on Chinese Gold Winners and players,
Because they get NOTHING to compare !!! NOBODY to compete !!!
They feel shame when look at themselves and delete the List of Gold by countries from their BBC website !!!
Hahaha loser always feel jealous about winner and talk all bullshit.
@CharlieW, voiceofhomer, LaoWei
Guys, you make me laugh. Some of your suppositions are absurd and foolish. But, that is your right.
China has been caught cheating so many times (more than any other country) that I am surprised that anyone is surprised that the OC questioned her win.
China cheats. Period.
“Clare Balding ends excellent Olympics with new Channel 4 contract”…wtf! Unjust.
It is just like Obama using and bashing China to get reelected.
Chinese and China are the whipping boy for the westerners.
Sorry, this is just the old Chinese self-victimisation technique.
Doping is common in sport. The suspicion is not unjustified and should be applied no matter where the athlete is from. Now that she’s proven not to be doping, there is no reason to pursue it further.
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