Liberation Army Daily criticizes U.S. provoking China’s dignity

| August 14th, 2010

20100812-us-provok-01

The following article published by Liberation Army Daily was made popular recently with hundreds thousands of comments pouring in.

(From Netease and other major Chinese media) Liberation Army Daily reported on August 13, a spokesman for the U.S. Department of Defense made an announcement at a press conference recently, that the United States would send “George Washington” aircraft carrier to the Korean West Sea (Yellow Sea) in a series of joint military exercises. This was a 180 degree turn comparing with the Pentagon’s official position in mid-July.

Chinese government has repeatedly expressed its strong opposition to foreign military vessels and planes engaging in activities which affect China’s security in the Yellow Sea and other Chinese coastal waters, and urged all relevant parties to treat China’s concerns and positions seriously. However, the tree may crave calm, but the wind will not stop. The U. S. insisted to send aircraft carriers to the Yellow sea to provoke China, what kind of message is it sending? I believe that the U.S. is still pursuing the three “isms”.

First, hegemonism – “I have the final say in the world, I can go anywhere I want, no one has the right to interfere.” The basis of the hegemonic mentality is the the philosophy of “destiny” which deeply rooted in some of the Americans. This theory says that the American nation is the world’s best nation, the United States national leadership of the world is determined by God, which shall not be rebelled against. Therefore, the Americans fight all around the world, wherever something happens, the Americans will appear there. But the result often is that wherever the Americans appear at, it becomes more chaotic. The reason is that they believe the U.S. social system is the world’s most advanced system, and therefore advertise their “democratic values” even in the expense of marketing the use of force; they believe the American nation is the best in the world, so they must “lead the world”, other nations must follow, whoever does not listen shall be taught a lesson by force. In their eyes, other countries and national security is secondary, or even not concerning.

Second, gunboat policy (imperialism) – “If you don’t listen, I will show you my muscles; still do not listen, I will use force, use my fists.” The most classic footnote in May of this year “2010 U.S. Navy building concept”, America’s so-called “maritime interests” was described most vividly, claiming the U.S. Navy to build around the six core competencies: One is the existent of the frontline; second is deterrence; third, safety at the sea; fourth, control of the waters; fifth, power delivery; sixth, humanitarian aid. How high-sounding it is! But so-called “existence of the frontline” is United Sates forces can go to all corners of the world, to push the U.S. borders to be outside of the doors of others. Yellow sea, South China Sea etc. are all borders for the security of the United Sates. So-called “deterrent” is if you don’t listen to me, I will beat you up. So-called “maritime security”, is to ensure the sanctity of the U.S. forces, only if I am safe, who cares if others are unsafe? So-called “control of the waters” is still pursuing “the theory of whoever controls the major choke hold of the sea controls the entire water. So-called “humanitarian aid” is being “humanitarian” to U.S. allies but “hegemony” to others. The behavior of the United States shows that it still holds the Cold War mentality, still pursuing the gunboat policy. This gunboat policy is based on the rules of jungle games as the philosophical foundation, and its basic principle is bullying. Ironically, only relying on forces and weapons, caused the embarrassment of trapping in war of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Third, unilateralism – “No matter how many people will be affected, I only respect myself, go with my own ways, everything moves around the interests of the United Sates.” Philosophical foundation of American unilateralism is a zero-sum game, the basic principle is my gain is always someone else’s loss; the contrary, other’s gain is my loss. Therefore, its style is not willing to communicate with other parties’ concerns, not to mention empathy. Obama came to power, claiming to draw the line from the former president Bush’s unilateralist policies, pursuing a “smart power diplomacy”. But he insisted on the US-Korea Joint military exercises around the waters of Korean peninsula, seems that there is no multilateral security cooperation, but only unilateral confrontation, no clever display of strength and diplomacy, but only the diplomacy of showing off their powers.

Chinese people are peace-loving. China is now taking a different path from the imperialists, rising in power with peaceful development. We do not want enmity with any country, but we do not fear whoever ignores our solemn position, ignore the core interests of China, only think about themselves and going too far. A country should have dignity, an army must have dignity, “We will not attack unless we are attacked; if we are attacked, we will certainly counterattack”. This is not a joke to the Chinese people and Chinese army. Doesn’t the United States advertise itself as the most democratic country? Then it should know that today, in the 21st century to respect others, learn to listen to the people of other countries, learn to use wisdom to solve problems not by gunboats.

(Written by China Military Science Society Deputy Secretary-General Luo Yuan | 罗援)

218 Comments | Leave a comment | Comment feed

  1. balaji says:

    PRC should stop supporting north korea and pakistan with nuclear ambitions, It is a natural position gifted to USA by PRC by geopolitical ambitions .PRC should stop this and control north korea and punish it, by this kind of diplomacy american chinese will be the losers which will not be interest of anybody. Japan,SK,INDIA are all supporting USA because of this policy of PRC . PRC should also take india concerns with pakistan and start serious trade and relations.

    • AlleyCat says:

      why not also mention their loving support of dubious regimes in Birma, Iran, and a couple of corrupt African countries. The list goes on and on.

    • pug_ster says:

      That’s kind of a flawed statement. US started an all scale war in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan and we should fear China and Iran because they will attack their neighboring countries. I bet you buy into the notion that we have to attack other countries because of an ‘preemptive’ attack (IE if we don’t attack them, they will attack us mentality).

      • Tiu Fu Fong says:

        The peace loving nation of China also started a war in Vietnam in ’78 or ’79, but was kicked out by the Vietnamese. That defeat doesn’t sit too well with a few national self-deceptions in China, so doesn’t get talked about much.

        • pug_ster says:

          Did I ever say that China is a perfect nation? No. I think China has made some mistakes like attacking Vietnam at 78-79 but I’m glad that they decided to cut it short before going on to a full fledged conflict. I think China has made some mistakes like talking about South China sea as its ‘core interests’ when they should not have said that.

          • SDS says:

            Personally I think China doesn’t go around imposing itself on others because it has no basis to do this on. Historically the CCP has been against foreign expansion and cooperation until the last two decades to chase a misguided dream of an autarkic Chinese-communism.

            History aside, the present CCP spouts none of the high sounding principles (for right or wrong I won’t judge here) other western countries do that could form the foundation of offensive international policies. To be direct- it lacks strong universalistic values other countries could sympathize with.

            Back to reality: CCP should just stop aiding a regime that’s twice publicly announced its prepared to nuke the world if it feels that its necessary. Just shows outright disrespect of human life. Then again, with such a large populace life is cheap…

  2. Heidi says:

    While I agree with you that American foreign policy has some serious flaws, I object to your confusing this with the will of the American PEOPLE. We also are a peace-loving people (well, most of us anyway), and many of us strongly disagree with what the federal government is doing abroad. I think your government too doesn’t always follow the desires of the Chinese people. This is a flaw of many governments world-wide, not just the US and China. It’s not fair to claim that innocent peace-loving Chinese people would NEVER meddle in another country’s affairs, but that American PEOPLE would. The Chinese government is meddling in Africa perhaps even to a greater extent than America or Europe these days. China in Africa is hegemonic, imperialistic, and unilateral too. Say all you want about American foreign policy vs Chinese foreign policy – there’s lots to be said. But don’t confuse what the average citizen wants or would do with what the government is doing.

    • balaji says:

      I clarify that its the american govt not american people!

    • balaji says:

      PRC has every right to trade with africa and it not the concern of anybody to interfere in its rights. Its ambitions date back to admiral zheng he who travelled till african coasts to trade long before the europeans came to asia.PRC has every right to be a power but that should done peacefully. Americans, indians etc do not have standing on trade topic just because its competitive. Iam a indian and i recognize this fact of so called free trade. China has every right to be world power provided it takes into concerns of its neighbours!

    • Ken S says:

      You forget one thing. Americans can vote. Chinese can’t.

      Therefore the actions of the US government merely reflect what the AMERICAN people want, they voted for Afghanistan, they voted for Iraq. They voted for war and 1000s of civilian casulties (as well as American soldier deaths) they voted for it, ergo they wanted it. And they deserve whatever they voted for.

      Remember you also have 2nd amendment rights even if both parties are the same sides of the coin you have the means to take down the US government.

      You can use the oh well both parties are the same here regarding the UK, since the UK has a two party system where the parties are identical. However there is a stark difference. British people have no 2nd amendment rights, therefore we can’t change the government by force of arms we simply do not have the tools to do this. British people would have a snowball in hell chance of changing anything.

      While in China the PRC citizens can’t vote at anything more than the precint level, they have no 2nd amendment rights. They attempted to over throw the government in 1989 they were massacred in large numbers. Therefore they cannot vote NOR can they overthrow the government which means what China does cannot be considered the will of the people at all.

      • pug_ster says:

        Aren’t you contradicting yourself? You say that China can’t vote yet they can vote up to the precint level?

        • Ken S says:

          It’s hard to explain.

          Precint wasn’t the best answer….

          In my limited understanding of the US electoral system you elect almost all levels of government from the President all the way down to the local representitives.

          The UK is almost the same but we have the house of Lords where there is no voting we vote for the top tier of government all the way down to local councilors.

          In China there is no method (other than insurrection) to change the top tiers of government, in villages in China they choose a representitive who is supposed to talk to the person higher than him. But this person has no real right to vote on things or to change the higher tiers of government at all.

        • SDS says:

          I think Ken S means the Chinese people cannot directly change the composition of the CCP or the one political party system existing in China. In that way what the CCP does is not the ‘will of the people’ but at most a will implied from the people (a nice way to say it instead of ‘a will imposed onto the people’).

      • EBShanghai says:

        Um, would you care to remind us when exactly it was that the American people “voted for Afghanistan… voted for Iraq… voted for war and 1000s of civilian casulties (as well as American soldier deaths)”? Was there a popular referendum that I missed somehow?
        I’m pretty sure I didn’t see a little oval to fill in for “American soldier deaths” on the last ballot.

    • 柴纳闷 says:

      There many debates about China’s engagement in Africa. Most, however, took place with very few hard facts. There is a book called “The Dragon’s Gift: The Real Story of China in Africa”, written by Prof. Deborah Brautigam, who has three decades of experience in both China and Africa. The book is absolutely a must read for anyone interested in the subject of Chinese aid to Africa.

    • John says:

      I thought America is a democracy and the government is for the people, by the people. So America is a dictatorship? i

  3. shenmeniao says:

    I sorta wonder if key was laughing at the thought of the comments while translating this…

    i love how this article is 3 strikes against america and then in comes the China paragraph.
    i wonder what this article would look like written from a nationalist american perspective…

  4. b-real says:

    I said this on my face book and I will say this again, China needs to stop worrying about what America is going to do. America can’t afford to absorb another nation. To attack China is to inherit the biggest burden. China with all its vast land, vast amount of resources and even vast amount of people, they sure like to cry intrusion. China is just as peaceful as the tip of my dick. Its not that you are peaceful but too busy rebuilding a nation that is still fucked up from the invasion, the revolution, and the not so big quakes and floods that is just a pity for such a mighty nation.

    The funny thing is if the United States really wanted to hit China. hit them where it hurts. US would stop all financial ties. Shut down any Company based in the US that has its products made or operations in China. Weakening them financially. Then watch nature take its toll as it is doing as I type, to the point where most of their military might is concentrated on rescue missions of poor infrastructure, which is also a drain on their ability to build a standing defense against a unilateral attack from India.

    As of now North Korea is ripe for the taking as they fall in this category mentioned above and 100 times smaller.

    If anything they have the 1st “ism” partly right. Hilary even said it, these joint military operations are to show you who is King. But US navy has not broke any laws that was not internationally set. China just afraid US might be trying to stake claim on some of the oil they have not built wells over yet. The US is aware of all the suspicious military build up you guys love to deny. We just want to hear it come from your mouths like every one does that is part of this world order of nations.
    China push the international water line out further only for America. If China wants to step up to the plate and prove it can patrol its side of the pacific take out the competitor and steal its allies. If anything you should enjoy the benefits that my tax dollars go to protecting your asses from another invasion from another small island nation like Japan, and set you back another 60 years. But China has a sufficient deterrent and its not its fake nukes that can only reach Taiwan and Japan.

    China have fun with your fear mongering, as you become larger your enemies will come out of the wood works.

    • Mark J says:

      If they did this China simply would not turn up for US$ bond auctions and the USA would turn into a hyperinflationary holocaust. Say how much did a gallon of gas cost last year eh? 😉

      The UK for instance printed out £200bn of money to give to the banks, there was nobody to buy it like China and inflation here was nasty and is nasty. Prices of food are increasing about 30% a year. Companies try to hide this by inferior goods or adding more water or same packaging less goods inside.

      China buying US$ is the reason why the 800bn money printing exercise last year did not turn the USA into Zimbabwe. Benanke is going to print out 700bn more. China can only absorb so much though.

      The one trick the US government has is to default on the debt, which would peeve off Japan, Korea, Russia infact everybody including a lot of Americans. Quite simply also nobody would sell you anything for a very long time either.

      Much like a business that bounces a cheque, you aren’t going to trust them in the future are you?

      Money printing IS essentially a partial default!

      The US nuke of defaulting also has a big problem, China has been spending US$ like crazy recently, uber infrastructure projects have been bought forward, so the US may well default in an attempt to nuke China’s economy, but the PRC may well have actually spent most of the US$ they hold already. I mean have you seen just how massive the Chinese stimulus has been recently?

      • b-real says:

        You know the Gallon of gas in the US is still cheaper than China or any other non petro producing state in Asia. The price of oil just got too high too quick for Americans too swallow.

        Im actually all for US not buying any one elses product but competing with these nations we buy from. I don’t agree with free trade while it bridges the gap between developing and the developed nations in return reverses the development of the most demanding developed nations like the US in turn strengthens the other. In other words “dey took er jobs!!!” along with some other serious factors. Let each nation go head to head as equals and sell what ever services or products they have to offer with out outsourcing and see who comes out on top. Not saying US will come in 1st but we definately won’t lose with the rest of the world.

        Oh fuck yeah I know China is seriously throwing money around but with all the natural disasters from earthquakes, to droughts, flash flooding and land slides They are going to need to some more money faster. Its all temporary to keep the people from getting pissed off from being broke hungry and unemployed.

        I read some where that our debt with China is cleared with Treasury and in the hands of private investors and banks to reassure that we don’t have to owe more if and when we do start printing. I believe the US has bounced quite a few checks or has not paid foreign debt holders back in quite some time. US credit is only shaky to China because China depends on US. Europe’s demanded output from China is minuscule compared to the USA. The funny thing about politics in outsourcing in China is that it can change over night and we can pack our shit and make ties with other poor nations looking for a break if shit gets really funky.

        I have to tell you from my experience of what is going on now inside of China they are getting just a little ahead of themselves on all the policy tightening. Companies are starting to smell the funk that they thought they were leaving behind in their own countries.

      • Urban dictionary says:

        China isn’t buying US bonds out of the goodness of its heart or because it wants to help the US government. No, they’re doing so because they want to keep the yuan cheap against the USD, and also US interest rates low (hence why they are willing to lend money at such low rates). The trouble is, now they’ve started, they can’t stop. If China stops buying American bonds, the economies of both countries are royally screwed. And China’s especially so, because the economic collapse that will follow will likely create social, then political, chaos.

    • pug_ster says:

      Tell that to Iraq and Afghanistan.

      • b-real says:

        embarrased about iraq but its still an independent nation, we only fund the war but we don’t govern the nation. Afghanistan had it coming but still has a seperate function GOV who allowed us to come in and invade because of their inept to remove the illegal GOV that was in place at the time and obviously after 9/11 was a seriouse problem that needs rectifying. As you can see US is trying to tread lightly on Iran and north korea because of what happened in Iraq.

        Because of type of nation China is and what happened in the past wars we fought with China involved my theory of a strategy would not be similar to what we are doing in the middle east.

        • pug_ster says:

          Yeah right. If China didn’t cave in the UN security council and rubberstamp the conspiracy theory North Korea attacked the Cheonan, I am willing to bet that North Korea will be attacked by now.

          • b-real says:

            The UN is irrelevant. The US don’t really have a take over plan that is viable or safe for that matter. Unless China can agree to stay out of it and literally let South Korea take it for themselves then we will just sit back. We can’t afford to fight toe toe battle with China over North Korea.

            If anything we are just simply looking for an excuse to get some pay back. He hit me, im gonna hit you back harder action.

            So far the muslims are the only enemies with real balls how about the Chinese. When too much is on the table their hand gets forced and they cry.

            • pug_ster says:

              What kind of twisted logic is that? US don’t really have a take over plan? that’s a good one. You’ll be surprised how US can actually afford another proxy war like the one with North Korea. They can simply simply declare China’s holdings in US treasury as void and start seizing assets to any Chinese American that they declare as supporting the terrorists.

              • Urban dictionary says:

                “They can simply simply declare China’s holdings in US treasury as void and start seizing assets to any Chinese American that they declare as supporting the terrorists.”

                Oh, it’s just as easy as that, huh? How stupid. Another economic illiterate.

                • Carl says:

                  ya, it is that simple. How stupid, another constitution illiterate.

                  • Urban dictionary says:

                    You talking to me, Carl? If so, explain your “constitution illiterate” remark.

                    • Carl says:

                      By constitution, I meant laws, but I won’t explain, too many cases. Maybe when you pass ur bar exam I’ll spend more time to explain.

                    • Urban dictionary says:

                      No, I actually think you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, which is why you won’t (can’t) explain. Your use of the word ‘constitution’ to talk about ‘laws’ speaks volumes. Your basic ignorance is especially amusing in light of the fact that you were calling someone else an illiterate.

                      Next time, think before you type.

                  • SDS says:

                    Do you intentionally ignore the implications of what you say or are you actually ignorant?

                    You may have the power (legal or not) to do something, but will you actually do it is a different question. And if it was to result in a kamikaze then what is the point?

    • Mark says:

      Agree. We have just called China’s bluff, and it hurts getting cut down to size.

  5. Seth says:

    If find it interesting that the Deputy Secretary describes a series of joint military exercises as a unilateral action. Does that mean an action is unilateral unless China is involved?

  6. georgeson says:

    China is far from strong. But she is no longer a sleeping lion. She is standing up, which nobody can prevent.

    • Yank says:

      China is resource poor, and has not developed its internal market. If a country with a strong navy decides to shut off China’s foreign oil, cooper, etc China will go down fast. Just remember Japan attacked the U.S. after the U.S. refused to sell oil to Japan because it was attacking China. The Japanese knew they had a year before the lack of oil would destroy their army and economy.

  7. Bert says:

    Let’s ask the Japanese how they feel about the Chinese subs and warships that swim around their island . Doesn’t the Chinese military respect the peacefulness of Japan? Those seacraft don’t threaten Japanese peaceful existance?

    “sleeping Lion”? Why use this language? Are Lions so peaceful? Do they not go after animals that are weaker and non-threatening. Lions kill and eat when they are hungry. The males will kill any male cubs when they are around. That sounds more like the Chinese gov’t towards its own people.

    • Carl says:

      I don’t think that commentator ever mentioned that China was always peaceful, as it is with all countries, which I would point out. If you have to be so satirical towards China, then I’d like to point out if China is to be a lion, then Japan would be a vulture, which attack the weak and the sick, or picking the leftovers left by the tigers and the lions. But again, I don’t really believe that, the world is not as simple as Bert might want to believe.

      And to your first point, Let’s ask the million of Asians who were brutally raped and slain by the brainwashed Japanese conscripts? Who are still being slowly brainwashed? Japanese peaceful existence? I’m sorry, but that sentence was logically faulty.

      • georgeson says:

        YOu are definitely right. In this world, there is not a really peaceful country. It might exist in the ancient times. But because there were, are, and will always be so many evil countries like wolves in the forests, a really peaceful country should already be eliminated from this planet. In the present world, there is only an iron fact that weak countries will be insulted by strong countries (if the strong countries like to do that).

        China was insulted too much in the past 150 hundred years. Peace is just for diplomatic usage. Neither Japan nor US is peaceful. US just invaded Iraq several years ago and is invading some other countries.

        I don’t think China will respond extremely to US right now. But China will keep developing quickly and arm herself more and more till one day Chinese fist can speak against the US.

      • bert says:

        I just wanted to see someone here get typically worked up and comment about the bad things the Japanese did 60 years ago. Thanks for that very thing Carl. You just can’t help it can you? You have a spirit inside you that just has to say it.

        What you said about Japan being a vulture picking through the leftovers of China “the Lion” makes absolutely no sense.

        The world IS so simple. People are selfish.

        • Carl says:

          No, I was simply commenting on your hypocrisy, and the vulture part wasn’t meant to make any sense.

          Ha, “The world IS so simple. People are selfish.” I’m not even going to comment on that.

          • Allen says:

            Oh please comment on that!! I’m dying to see how much more pathetic your simple little mind can get.

  8. Mark says:

    I’m glad that the U.S. is not caving in to the mindless rants of a country that wants to be the big bully of the region. The fact is that international law has never supported China’s claim to the entire Yellow Sea. History shows the claims are based on a patriotic committee that meet in the 1930’s in China when China was under war lord ism that did not even have accurate maps.

    China needs to understand American history on this issue. America is a country of traders. Before there was a United States Yankee traders were building ships and sailing them around the globe. Freedom of Navigation is a core American issue. The U.S. has fought several wars to protect the rights of its merchantmen and our navy on the high seas in accordance with custom and international laws.

    The War of 1812 was over the British restricting our navy and merchantmen and boarding our ships.

    The Barbary Coast campaigns were fought because the U.S. refused to pay tribute to Pirates to navigate the Mediterranean when every European country paid tributes and ransoms.

    Admiral Perry Opens Japan due to Japan executing and Jailing American seaman and ships.

    World War I . The U.S. entered the war when Germany began unrestricted sub war and attempted to embargo U.S. Merchantmen.

    Sorry China but you can not bully America. We have been around the block and you can not change the rules just because you are the new power on the block not when the U.S. has centuries of international law about the freedom of navigation on our side and the blood and sweat of our navy that has fought for our international rights. As long as America is strong we will uphold our rights to navigate the worlds oceans.

    • Carl says:

      What? Sorry, China bullying America is logically faulty, as it is with your entire perception for that matter. If fact, everything you wrote just proved how right the author of this article is about the American people – an arrogant bunch.

      • Mark says:

        If international law is on the side of the U.S. which it is there is no arrogance in that.

        Americas right to navigate the oceans of the world is based on international law and custom traditions that existed long before the U.S. was a world power.

        China is acting in a hegemonic way. China is demanding a sphere of influence much like the Japanese did in the 30’s. Welcome to the new Asian co prosperity sphere. It will not be long before China begins to treat the rest of Asia as a colony.

        • Carl says:

          what international laws? what’s international about the international laws? the so called international laws ARE western laws imposed on the rest of the post colonial world.

          Explain how is China “demanding” a sphere of influence in its own territorial waters.

          And if it is, what the hell is the U.S. doing in the Yellow Sea if not for the same but much more obscure reasons?

          • Mark says:

            Not just international law in the form of conventions but customary practice and tradition.

            China’s claims almost the entire area that Europeans called the South China Sea including area that include the actual local waters of countries like Vietnam, Indonesia, etc. China’s claims are ridiculous on face value alone, but if one were to use China’s own arguments about the Yellow Sea with respect to their own intrusions in the South China Sea, China is wrong. Meaning China’s territorial waters now extend to within a few miles of the coast of Indonesia and the Philippines.

            China is already practicing gun boat diplomacy in the region

            http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/international/news/20100802p2a00m0na021000c.html

            The U.S. does not recognize spheres of influence. Never has and never will. Look at our relations with Russian recently and the conflict is about Russia claiming a sphere of influence that the U.S. is supposed to respect.

            • Carl says:

              The U.S. does not recognize spheres of influence. Never has and never will.

              hahaha, you can say that again. Seriously though, i’m beginning to wonder wither you have any idea of how international relations works. In any case, I don’t understand why you are trying to evade the idea that the US is a hegemonic entity. You can try and justify the 700 or so military bases and thousands more of the “military installations” the U.S. has placed worldwide. You can try and justify it, but you’ll just prove my point even more.

              And as to China’s claims, I have nothing to say about it. Every-Single-Country around South China Sea (note: south CHINA sea), claims the entire area for its own.

              • Mark says:

                As I mentioned earlier the U.S. has done the most to insure stability for the present system. We have bases because we have allies who also have a vested interest in the current system. I would add that most of our basing agreements date back to the Cold War when China and the Soviet Union were against the current system.

                If we had sphere of influence Chinese corporations would not being doing business in Iraq or Afghanistan as they are now.

                I would love to see most if not all the U.S. bases closed as the new bully on the block China is simply leeching off of the stability that the U.S. provides without being a responsible partner. However, since China is so immature about its international responsibilities I can see the need for not abandoning our allies. I remember how many Americans lost their lives to secure some of those basis when American fought the Japanese Empire. Why start all over again when America must confront the next Asian bully. Oh yeah and America is a Pacific power, we have a right to help our friends.

                • Carl says:

                  I see now that you have no idea how to see the world from any other perspective. That’s ok, you’re not alone. Being supercilious can only speed your demise.

                  Again, everything you’ve so far said only proves how right the letter was about the American mindset.

                  • Mark says:

                    You are a carp. Carps are good at carping. You can not see past your provencial pond and the crap your masters toss into it.

                    • Carl says:

                      lost all the arguments and spazing out?

                    • Yank says:

                      Carl Please do start collecting stones so when your gangster government tells you to riot you can throw them at the local American consulate or embassy and show your patriotic fervor.

                    • Carl says:

                      @ Yak

                      LOL, sure yank, ill be glad to.

              • elenore says:

                You don’t mind using these bases when Chinese goods are flowing all over the World.Most of these bases ensure Trade for Goods for everyone including your people.Your Welcome for paying to up keep World Trade,because that is what most of those bases do.And We pay a lot of money to make sure Trade Flows,We pay for it and everyone uses them,including China.

                • Carl says:

                  Funny how you assume that the earth will just self destruct the moment America goes isolationist again. As a personal opinion, I was never too keen on the WTO as a system, but even if it was to work as it was designed to, it should never have been kept up by a single country’s military and economic might. If what you claim is to be true that this is somehow a system paid and kept entirely by American tax payers, then the system has failed already.

              • Allen says:

                Oh you’re just telling as bunch of lies now! There went whatever credibility you may have had.

        • B says:

          Of course, when the Soviet Union gave Cuba some firecrackers for them to play around with on their sovereign territory, US went and blockaded the country for half a century. Now, I wonder how the US were to respond if China held joint military exercises with Cuba off of the coast of Florida today.

          • SDS says:

            Just on your logic: if China decides to ally with a country hostile to US, how else can the US react? Same goes for China if the position was reversed. However the present situation is different, at least on face value, US is conducting an exercise with S.Korea which is not hostile to China.

          • Al says:

            The US blockaded Cuba for a only a few months, it was called “The Cuban Missile Crisis” and it was resolved peacefully.

            The USA has an ongoing embargo against Cuba, but an embargo and a blockade are not the same thing. The reason why the US has a blockade against Cuba is that Cuba nationalized a lot of US corporate property during the revolution – and the USA (and particularly Cuban Americans) continue to demand compensation for the property that was taken by the Cuban government.

          • heilongj says:

            I’d like to point out that in this case, the PRC does not have a history of military standoffs with South Korea. Nor is North Korea part of China. At least not officially.

            China shouldn’t feel any threat from this action. This is Seoul’s response to the Cheonan Incident. It’s Hanguo who’s truly trying to flex it’s muscle and scare the new little boy in charge up North. Part of a true show of power is showing who’s going to back you up. The US is committed by treaty to the defense of South Korea. Not to mention Japan and Taiwan. I do believe they have solid defense treaties with the Phillipines, too.

            Where did China ever get the idea that America was her enemy? Why did Japan go to war with America? Because America wouldn’t give them oil to keep attacking China! How many Americans died fighting Japan? China lost so much trying to fight the Japanese, and very few countries helped China fight back. How much harder would that war have been if China didn’t have America’s help?

            Americans feel it is their responsibility to try and keep the world safe. When the American government makes choices that the people don’t agree with, the people are free to choose a new leader, and they’re free to complain in public, in the newspaper, on tv. In China, nobody disagrees with the Government. They’re right because they’re the government. I’m not saying anybody’s right or wrong, but I wish the Chinese would make more decisions for themselves instead of just believing what they’re told all the time.

            Oh, and PS, I’m NOT American. I actually don’t like the Americans very much. But then again, America has attacked my country, so I have a REASON!

  9. Carl says:

    The irony of this letter is that… this is not the first time the Americans tried this. Last time was when the maniac Doug Macarthur tried to invade and possibly nuke the entire northern China. Ok, alright, ideology was the coke of the day, but still, that was some ignorance right there. For those who don’t know, that was during the First Korean War 😉

    So, obviously, when a land army of multiple of not-so-friendly countries marched right up against your border, you’d expect any reasonable country to react. Especially when ZhouenLai had especially forewarned them. Anyways.. we all know what happened.

    • b-real says:

      Sorry Carl, but whether you like it or not, China is wrong about a lot of things and they have their reasons but what they are shitting out in this letter is 95 % bullshit. No one really takes China’s shit seriously because you don’t do anything and really have no w

      A war with China will not be a soldier fought war. China can march all it soldiers to any border, not 1 bullet will have to be fired, in today’s time. No invasion needed just divert your attention from us by crippling your Government is all that is needed. Crippled Gov equals free range civil wars jocking for position, equals self destruction.

      • Carl says:

        I’m not sure where you’re getting at here, that comment you are responding to didn’t really argue for anything, except perhaps that China’s reaction is completely normal.

        And about this letter, i don’t see anything wrong with it except the last paragraph, so maybe you can clarify your arguments.

        • Mark says:

          He means its not about protecting the stinking rice paddies on your borders anymore.

          • b-real says:

            What I meant is let the Chinese kill themselves off. With out a functioning Gov to tend to the people is like putting a gun in every one’s hand for several rounds free for all.

  10. Vonskippy says:

    So it’s wrong for America to visit it’s allies, but it’s OK for China to speak for all of Asia?

    Unlike China, America and it’s allies respect human rights, human life, freedom, etc and don’t put up with crappy neighbors (**cough** North Korea **cough**).

    China needs to clean up it’s own house, and it’s own neighborhood before attempting to advice America what to or what not to do.

    China’s wealth comes from the backs of it’s 1.4 billion citizens – most of them unwillingly – not exactly something to brag about is it? Nor will it last. Either those backs will break, or they’ll develop a backbone and demand to be fairly compensated. Either way China’s upswing is reaching it’s peaks – after that – it’s all down down down down down.

    • pug_ster says:

      Remember the Cuban missile crisis when Soviet ships was going to send missiles to Cuba when Kennedy freaked out and almost declared WWIII? Now the George Washington is going the same distance to China and China was supposed to calm down? That’s funny. China. China needs a deterrent against the US with the Dong Feng 21D and the anti satellite missiles. Who knows, one day will probably have another yellowcake moment to provoke India or Vietnam to attack China and US won’t be far behind to support them.

      • Mark J says:

        The cuban missile crisis was a direct response to US missiles and bombers stationed in Turkey.

        • pug_ster says:

          Rigit, and it has nothing to do with Cuba. Maybe they should call it Turkey Missile Crisis instead.

          • mark J says:

            Well nah it’s just that people choose to ignore certain things.

            Jupiter missiles were put in Turkey in 1961the agreement was signed in 1959 and 15 missiles were installed in Izmir. The USSR responded by wanting to build a missile base in Cuba in October 1961 which Kennedy was very unhappy about. But by 1963 the Jupiter missile sites were dismantled.

            Or

            Way back in 2002, Chirac said in French he cannot support a UN resolution, he qualified this by saying c’est soir, which means tonight.

            You know from the song Madame butterfly, voulez vous couche avec moi c’est soir (would you like to come to bed with me tonight) . British Media reported it as we can NEVER support a UN resolution.

            Or the way Amadinajad of Iran, he said we should wipe Israel off the map… which was purposefully misinterpreted Farsi to rattle sabres.

      • King Tubby says:

        pug_ster

        I wouldn’t bet the farm on one of these Dong Feng thingies being able to land on the flight deck of a US cruiser. It has never been tested in a real conflict situation. For all we know, it could end up landing on Shenzhen.

        On the other hand, the US has a lot of missile experience and is quite capable of taking out the power grid of every major city on China’s east coast, not to mention water supplies and god knows what else.

        All this is so much hot air by the PLA, strictly for the benefit of the local peanut gallery, and designed to draw attention away from the string of environmental disasters which make up 2010

        • mark J says:

          The US is worried about Asymetric warfare thats all, Asymetric warfare was developed by the Russians simply as they could not match the US war machine dollar for dollar. Quite simply it’s not fair!

          Asymetric warfare is incredibly difficult to win against. Because you spend so much more than your enemy does. While the US went down the supercarrier route, the Russians (and by and large everybody else) went the missile route. Your super carrier packs a lot of firepower undoubtedly, and it is defended heavily by 2-3 Aegis cruisers as well as the fleet air arm.

          The Russians instead of thinking we must build equally big carrier task forces perhaps Midway is a parallel for this, thought sod this and instead built supersonic missiles instead..

          The point being is that missiles are cheaper than carriers, MUCH cheaper. The USA and USSR had this debate in the SALT treaties, whereby ICBMs were so much cheaper than anti ICBMs which resulted in an agreement about internal radars (which incidentally Moscow cheated on with its S400 system)

          Tom Clancy is always pro American but has an excellent take on this, while the AEGIS system is undoubtedly awesome with the SEARAM missile it has an incredible limitation, lets say the AEGIS cruisers have 100% hit rate that means 264 missiles incoming are destroyed…. but then you run out of ammo and the 265th missile causes the USN to have a very bad day.

          I’d hazard a guess you can buy at least 5000 of these missiles for the price of a carrer, add in the escorts then the odds look even worse.

          Such parallels have played through history many times.

          The German tanks in WWII were the best but were overwhelmed by cheap Sherman tanks and inferior T34s.

          The 1972 Israeli Arab war, the Israelis with their tanks and previous victories thought they were invincible. But they bought along anti tank missiles. Same thin with the the recent Lebanon Israeli war. Israel thought it would walk over Lebanon, it didn’t turn out that way.

          But really it’s just a dick waving contest tbh, as the USA and China are virtually attached to the hip these days.

        • pug_ster says:

          King Tubby,

          You can believe it or not, but at least China says that they have tested this anti-carrier missile. Second, the problem with America’s long range missiles and drones is that they rely on Satellites. Do you recall when China wants to test out blowing up its own old weather satellite? They can do the same thing on American satellites which will essentially turn America blind.

          • King Tubby says:

            Pug_ster. Hogswash. Buy a subscription to Janes Weekly. I am not an American, nor do I particularly like their foreign policy, but they are so far ahead high tech wise, that they could blow you off the can before you reached for the toilet paper.

            Anyway, the Chinese govt has its hands full dealing with the spate of man made environmental disasters, and things will get worse.

            The 21st Asian/Chinese century….are you taking drugs. The US global hegemony lasted about 45 years. China’s will last for about one long wet weekend.

            • pug_ster says:

              King Tubby,

              Before trying to off me with your BS, show me proof that China hasn’t yet proved its effectiveness of the Dong Feng 21D. Where in the hell did I mention anything about China as a great country militarily and as a global hegemony? With the money that the US spends on the military, they can nuke the world 6 times over.

              How the US was able to ‘tolerate’ the kind of warfare today is the use of precision bombing and super carriers going after specific targets and not civilian targets. If China takes that edge away from the US, the US has to resort to Vietnam style carpet-bombing which will kill alot of civilians instead which American citizens won’t tolerate.

              • Yank says:

                U.S. has tolerated mass bombing in past if it was in context of total war. In Korea U.S. killed I forget between one million to five million Noth Korean civilians through strategic bombing. Its all about the context and the medias ability to expose military actions. In Vietnam part of the U.S. public turned against bombing Norh Vietnam when there was not the type of carpet bombing of civilians that took place in Korea.

    • Carl says:

      You don’t visit your allies by provocatively traversing your rival’s territorial water.

      Your other observations too shallow to be rebutted.

      • Mark says:

        China seeks to change the accepted norm for what are territorial waters. No international body has ratified what China now claims as territorial waters.

        During the cold war Soviet intelligence ships would sit in international waters outside of major naval bases like in San Diego and monitor American nuclear submarine traffic. Because they were in international waters only miles away from Americas shores the U.S. did not do anything. China treats every sea around it as if they are sovereign waters.

        China needs to blame its geography and stop blaming the U.S.

        • Carl says:

          And no international bodies ratified that the U.S. has the right to police the world.

          Ha, did nothing? HAHAHAHA, ok, even if it is, it’s still only a intelligence ship. I’d be laughing if U.S. did nothing if the Soviets send their full armada right into Cuba.

          Oh but I don’t have to guess what happened.

          • Mark says:

            China is building naval bases in Pakistan and Sri Lanka. It seems China views India as a threat.

            Russian recently conducted naval exercises with Venezuela. For some reason Russia thought that would anger the U.S. When you have a tested and blooded navy like America has which is strong bull shit like that will not bother the U.S.

            Only weak countries bray like a bunch of donkey’s when they can not do shit anyways.

            • Carl says:

              you just proved my point. international laws are pure american bs that onkly exist when it is beneficial to american m.i.complex. You just proved (again) yourself a hypocrite.

              • Yank says:

                He did not mean Int laws are bullshit. He meant if China was not so weak they would not be worried about what other countries do.

                • Carl says:

                  I didn’t say he meant what I said he said, he slowly disproved himself in a futile attempt to defend America’s self-righteousness. Which, by the way, in case you’re lost in all of this argument, is exactly what the author of the letter was trying to convey. Something Mark disagreed with.

                  China is weak, in comparison to present American and to its past self.

                  You better yank something out of your brain right now, because I dont recall you commenting on anything directly regarding the article.

              • SDS says:

                To enlighten you a bit, international law is not US-oriented. In fact if given the choice the US would throw a lot of it out the window. The US itself has on many occasions not recognized many international laws which goes to show they aren’t just a pile of pro-US documents.

                • Carl says:

                  @SDS Funny you should say that. Ok, let me rephrase it, International Laws are WESTERN orientated, with the US in the lead.

                  US, and western nations in general, proposes rules whenever it benefits them, and disregard it whenever it doesn’t, all of it disguised as “international laws” for “peace, democracy and freedom”.

                  Is this good enough for you?

    • Mark J says:

      The US respects human rights? Since when?

      The US by proxy abuses human rights, by propping up tin pot dictators, remember Saddam? He used to be a US puppet. Remember Osama? He used to be on the CIA payroll too. It was funny when we said nothing when he gased the Kurds, 20 years later oh you’re such a bad man you gassed the kurds!

      You seriously think Abu Graib was a couple of renegade soldiers rather than ordered from the top?

      Or does this not count?

  11. Victor - NYC says:

    Victor – NYC wrote:

    China was, is and will be a serial invader, for the last 2000 years they invaded Vietnam many times, trying to make Vietnam as one of it city like Canton. But that many times failed. for the last 100 years or more they took over Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Urumqi. They created the axis of evils of the world, including North Korea, Iran, Burma, Pakistan. China should be held responsible for the atrocity in Cambodia by supporting Pol Pot killing 3 millions of Cambodian. China territory has almost doubled since 1949 when the communist took charge of China by claiming Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Urumqi as part of China.
    CHINA IS THE MOTHER OF ALL EVILS. WILL NEVER BE A PEACEFUL NATION.
    The worse part about Chinese people are, they worship monies, and would do anything for monies. Just watch, observe and see for yourselves.

    • Mark J says:

      For a moment there I thought you were talking about the USA, hell the same charges could be leveled against the British Empire, the Mongol empire, the Persian empire.

      • b-real says:

        the difference is every one know what the US is all about and therefore has made a valid choice to respect its power. For a nation that no one really likes on an international level to try and contend the US powerful force on the world front like Russia, germany, and Japan did are in for a rude awakening. It would take all of the US’s allies to turn there backs for the US to actually fall.

        Unfortunately the US is not an empire as much as you want to think it is. The US has no control over their allies but has leverage over their security. Without us their fate may lay in the balance to their neighbors that surround them (excpt for Georgia they got raped). China seems to have forgotten that or chose to ignore that fact. This is a good reason why US pulls these stunts so close to their so called waters. We just wanna sail freely and look at your canoes of battle ships thru binoculars instead of Satellite and see if you wanna play with us. But ran to their security counsel that doesn’t really want them and cried foul.

    • Mark says:

      The root of all evil are the Han Chinese. The Han as a group are like the Nazis. Look at how they have treated other countries like the Tibetans and the Uighur,

      • pug_ster says:

        Spoken like a true racist.

        • Mark says:

          Racism is when you invade your neighbor and destroy their monasteries, kill their monks and nuns, destroy their culture and art in the name of cultural revolution, and force their children to learn Mandarin rather than their native tongue, and then refuse to give them jobs while you plunder their resources, counting the days until you can replace them with your own people. Deeper than racism best called genocide.

          • Voice of China says:

            B-Real and Mark – your true colors really show in the heated discussion you are having on global politics.

            Any fool can have a view regarding the interpretation of world events and national regimes.

            A discussion of politics is really a waste of time, when half the time, you have only a shallow understanding of what you are talking about and at other times, you make things up on what you think you have heard. If you’re not doing that, then the other person you’re arguing about it is.

            Truth be said, the article is completely right and reflects a very global view that most of the world has of the United States. Media control is the very means that Nations use to control the masses and propagate negative sentiment towards rivals. You’re naive if you think the US doesn’t do it.

            Regarding Tibet: You don’t have a clue about what goes on there except what CNN tells you. On the other hand, most Chinese know that we support Tibet’s development, and support their culture. CNN fabricates lies as part of national policy that is in line with their goals set out in their age old document found on the CIA website “issues pertaining Tibet”. The Dalai Lama’s head advisor was a nazi death squad leader and his brother works for the CIA. The Tibetan Youth Congress is structured much like a terrorist faction which the USA strives to hide.

            • Mark says:

              Dear ELITIST Marlboro cigarette chain smoker sitting in an internet cafe,

              You argue that the masses are never informed, and Any view from the masses is a waste of time because the masses are all fools or parts there of so why bother.

              Of course, then you contradict yourself and give your opinion.

              As you wrote any fool can give and opinion and then you state your opinion… with the words “truth be said the article is completely right” ….what a joke!!!!

              So the only people subject to media control are people in the United States and the rest of the world is not (including China) because as you claim the rest of the world knows the truth about the U.S.? But if all governments lie and control their media how do you know that the article is completely right? How do you really know what world opinion is?

              Furthermore, if the masses are fools would that not make you a fool also? Oh wait you have some special medium for information that only the voice of China can read….with of course the rest of the world except the U.S. thanks to the C.I.A.

              I guess when you were taking all those mandatory courses in school about Marxist Leninism; which you slept through or played with your cell phone, you did not have time to take a course in basic logic and philosophy.

              Regarding Tibet: I get my information from the refugee Tibetan families that I know personally that were forced to walk over the mountains to get to Nepal and freedom, and evade the Chinese army to get away from China’s so called development of Tibet, and they hate your government.

              • Voice of China says:

                Hahaha.. I must say that I was deeply entertained at your attempt to offend me. Mostly at the Juxtapositioning of your first sentence.

                Although your later arguments are fairly inconsistent in terms of reflecting your actual intellect.

                On one hand, I give you credit for summarizing my comment as ‘masses are never informed’ since this is correct. However, your next sentence, shows your inability to understand the word ‘contradiction’.

                My statement approving the article merely records an observation that I have regarding the negative sentiment against the United States, which is shared amongst Chinese, countries in the middle east, and across Europe. It’s not an opinion nor is it interpreting ‘world events or national regimes’ like you have been attempting to do throughout the comment section.

                So the only people subject to media control are people in the United States and the rest of the world is not (including China) because as you claim the rest of the world knows the truth about the U.S.?

                You are attacking a strawman here. If you read carefully, I mentioned that all ‘nations’ are subject to media control’ not merely the United States.

                But if all governments lie and control their media how do you know that the article is completely right? How do you really know what world opinion is?

                Because my observation about world opinion is based on word of mouth through a large sample size of people which reflect their target demographic race. The article itself also reiterates the view which is shared by those who I know from various ethnic backgrounds.

                Furthermore, if the masses are fools would that not make you a fool also? Oh wait you have some special medium for information that only the voice of China can read….with of course the rest of the world except the U.S. thanks to the C.I.A.

                Hahaha.. I like how you play around with logical fallacies. The answer is simple, I don’t follow politics because it is a waste of time. Even if you deduce a rational conclusion, it is likely shrouded by information that is not available publicly but of vital importance.

                Regarding Tibet: I have visited Tibet a few times in the last five years and I support three kids by paying for their education. Their parents confide to me that the Tibetan Youth Congress was the cause of the riots and that they are happy with their lives except for the constant interference caused by the Dalai Lama in continually causing unrest in the region.

                They said that since the Dalai Lama left, poverty, inequality of living standards and lack of education has slowly diminished and they are greatly benefiting from the social benefits the Chinese government is providing.

                On the other hand, I have no idea, why or how a TIbetan family like the one you apparently know, would ‘walkover the mountains to Nepal and then have the funds to fly to America where they coincidentally met you and described their woes’.

                I guess you must be feeling pretty bad at this stage. What a loser you are for attempting to interpret politics, economics, international law and military strategy while being an expert in neither and crying because you got butthurt over an article posted online criticizing your precious country. Not interested in arguing politics with you son, and hope you get over your insecurity.

              • Sabahmail says:

                You Are making a fool of yourself MARK

            • King Tubby says:

              Voice of China. You are obviously on drugs.

              Read this: the news from the Liberation Army Daily.

              http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67E07020100815

              Fuckwit. Are you so f…… stupid. Basically, the US has the capacity to take you out while on the toilet, and leave the KTV next door intact.

              Now that I think about it, it is a good idea.

              Talk about fenqing over reach.

              • Voice of China says:

                Wow, the anger… where’s it all coming from?

                Am I the only one that cares to say, ‘well, I don’t know what military the and strategy each country has and nor am I interested in finding out?’

                I’m not really sure what anything I have said has anything to do with military attack but whatever rocks your boat Tubby boy. If it makes you happy to vent online then go for it, don’t let me stand in the way.

                • georgeson says:

                  Hey brother, stop wasting time with these western people. Save your time on your study and work. Of course, make love with your wife more and produce more sons and daughters, and remember to give them good education. China needs your hard work. China doesn’t need your useless discussion with wrong group of people.

                  Forget all diplomatic statements and leave them to our government. Chinese people never respect arguing people. We respect people who really make China stronger, e.g. those armed China with nukes.

                  • King Tubby says:

                    Off to your KTV, tosser. Worry about the string of man-made environmental catastrophies which have hit you degraded motherland this year. And there are more to follow. Brother.

                    • georgeson says:

                      So what?
                      Pollution is inevitable during the development though nobody wants it.
                      It takes years to transform the type of industries. Take more time to read your world history book.

          • Carl says:

            No, racism is when you hire a white dumbass and not a black PhD for the same job posting. racism is when you hold deep prejudice against a certain or all other ethnicities other than your own for no particular reasons other than they are different for you.

            You, fit very well into that description. The typical American Exceptionist.

            • Mark says:

              Sounds like discrimination to me Carl. You focus seems to be on individual acts. Racism can be an ideology and it can describe a system. The system China uses towards its neighbors goes beyond racism.

              • Carl says:

                No, you’re wrong! LOL

                I hope I don’t need to explain to you what racism means.

                By neighbours you know Tibet, East Turkmenistan, Taiwan, Manchuria, (Inner) Mongolia and all the little bits and pieces of territories that India claims as its own? And I suppose you think that all of them should declare independence and go about their own ways, instead of having those people living in oppressive dictatorial tyranny of the PRC.

                If I guessed right that these are your reasonings, then I’d just like to point out to whom the entirety of the Americas belongs to.

    • King Tubby says:

      Victor. Most of your post is pure bs. However, when it comes to a Vietnamese PRC face off, the Vietnamese would win hands down. And they hate the guts of their northern neighbours. In fact, China has no Asian allies, unless your include those international polecats DPROK and Mynmar.

      You are not the sharpest tool in the shed, since the US also recognised the Pol Pot regime. And the Kymer Rouge offed 10% of their population which came to about 1m people…not 3m.

      And yes, we all enjoy spending cash. Take a cold shower, you are overheated.

    • B says:

      You can count the number of US presidents that did not preside over a war with one hand, and in the past hundred years, all of these wars are overseas. US and NATO are responsible for many of evils of the world today. The US supported Bin Laden in Afghanistan, which caused the creation of Taliban and Alqaeda. The US supported Saddam while he gassed Kurds and tried to invade Iran, and then back stabbed him when he is no longer useful. Supporting the corrupt Shah in Iran directly caused the creation of the Islamic Republic. Facilitating the final breakup of Yugoslavia by supporting Taliban trained fighters in Bosnia. Even in the its past, how much territory the US would have if it did not invade native lands, Mexico, Hawaii, and British controlled Canada? And what right does the US have of accusing others of evil when it comes to nuclear ambitions when holds the largest nuclear arsenal of all nations, conducted more nuclear weapons test than any other nation in the world, and is the only nation that has used nuclear weapons in war?

      List of nations the US has invaded after WWII:
      Haiti
      Panama
      Greneda
      Iraq
      Afghanistan
      Cambodia
      Dominican Republic
      Cuba
      South Vietnam
      North Korea
      Serbia

      List of regions China invaded/attacked/border clashes/whatever else you want in this list after WWII:
      Spratly Islands
      Tibet
      South Korea
      Vietnam
      Soviet Union
      India

      ALL NATIONS ARE EVIL, AND SERVES ITS OWN NATIONAL INTEREST. USA DOES THIS MORE BLATANTLY THAN OTHERS.

      • Mark says:

        Hey B

        You forgot to add the U.S.

        China attacked the U.S. in Korea.

        • SebastianM says:

          Stupid f*cking cunt.

          B listed “regions” in conflict, not active standing armies located in the region. You cannot have the “US” in “Korea”, otherwise it’s called Imperialism and Colonialism.

          And lastly, we’re sick and tired of your military bases in our country. Get the f*ck out.

  12. nulle says:

    you PRC idiots DO realize if China takes out the carrier group…you just assured yourselves of M.A.D.

    Chinese does not have the capability to touch North American continent, but US can wipe the PRC chinese off the Asian continent if so desires. China could take out Japan, Guam, etc….by then, Europe and maybe Russia would get involved.

    If PRC is so great, why its citizens are immigranting to other countries in droves, having babies born elsewhere, etc. If PRC is so great, why do I see tofu-leftover buildings all over PRC? If PRC is so great, why people so worried about food safety? why owners of businesses in china have to deposit tens of thousand of yuan in escrow before leaving the PRC (probably to insure they return?) why people are protesting forced demolitations of their homes? why PRC had to have black jails, secure prisons, sometimes in hotels/motels inside the PRC? why PRC declare anything that remotely embarrases PRC state secrets?

    think about it.

    • Mark says:

      China’s leaders think they can treat the rest of the world the way they treat their own people which is like dogs.

      • Carl says:

        they might treat you like a dog when you get there, but otherwise…

      • B says:

        USA’s leaders think they only have to treat Americans as humans, the rest of the world they treat like dogs.

        • Mark says:

          Ha Ha so you agree with me.

          • B says:

            The problem with Americans are that they cannot see how the despicable actions of other nations equally despicable actions from their own. When China does something for its national interest, it is expansionist and evil, when the US does the same thing, it is to serve global security and spread freedom.

            • Mark says:

              B… just reflect on the state of the world after World War Two. China was in the middle of a civil war and had just been occupied by Japan and the previous great powers. The rest of Asia was not in any better shape particularly those countries that had been colonies or occupied by Japan. Europe was in shambles and millions were on the verge of starving.

              The United States took the lead in setting up a new model based on the United Nations and self determination, and new financial regulations which with the exception of communist countries the majority of the world used. Now even China and Russia are partners in the system.

              The United States has been most active in protecting and promoting the current system. In order for the system to work there does need to be global security and certain freedoms. Since China has done very well under the current system you really should look at the big picture. The real problem is that China has not been a responsible partner. China has used the system when it serves China, and China has no problem with behavior that creates global instability when there are profits to be made or it might hurt the United States.

              • pug_ster says:

                In other words, we want US to be the world’s policeman, and if China does like the way US does things, they are not a responsible ‘partner.’

                • Mark says:

                  Since China as of today has the worlds second largest economy all while the U.S. has been the worlds policeman yeah that about sums it up…but this will change cause America is hip to China’s game.

              • SDS says:

                Whilst I partly agree with the gloss on history, you make it seem overly one-sided. Its not that the US did everything without gain too. But I know where you’re coming from with your post.

    • Carl says:

      Hahaha… why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? why? because everything will seem dark when you stand in the shade.

  13. WesternFaggot says:

    The WHOLE WORLD IS A GODDAMN TOTALITARIAN REGIME

    Be it China or North America, it´s all the same shit and I don´t give a fuck any more, honestly.

  14. jiang says:

    History is a good teacher. Viewed objectively, one should be able to see clearly that it was the west which first came to China and wriggle their way into a weak Middle Kingdom. Japan followed suit. A weak lion will be eaten by a stronger hyena. Now, who can expect China to sit still while foreign carriers are circling the Yellow Sea?

    • bert says:

      It seems that they ARE sitting still.

      • Mark says:

        Yes they will sit still….or maybe their students will have a great patriotic protest and riot, and then they will go back to selling their women so they can smoke more opium.

  15. Eidolon says:

    Meh, the US and China are not so different, in practice. Separate ideologies, but similar results. Both countries depend on force to achieve what they cannot achieve by rhetoric, and both are ultimately motivated by the need to dominate, geopolitically.

    I do prefer US ideology a tad more because of its appeals to human rights, which at time factors into policy decisions vis-a-vis rogue regimes. This is called soft power, and it is something that the PRC sorely lacks.

    However, it is doubtless that the US’s current prosperity was achieved through stepping on weaker people. The colonization of the Americas was the largest colonization movement in history, and involved the deprivation of a much larger amount of territory from natives than anything that China has ever done. What can I say, Europeans are more ambitious when they set out to conquer the world.

    • Mark says:

      Oh really, very simplistic. I suppose Japan, Cuba, Germany and the Philippines all countries the U.S. occupied or defeated not to mention most of Europe are all under the jack boot of U.S. domination. Please grow some balls Eidolon and stop your Euro centric relativism.

      • Eidolon says:

        Actually, the Allied occupation of Germany, and the US colonization of the Philippines, were both fairly brutal, which today would certainly be considered to have violated all sorts of human rights laws. The Filipinos fought a difficult war of independence against the US, in case you forgot.

        • Mark says:

          The allied occupation of Germany was fairly brutal? I suppose you will compare it to the German occupation of Poland and parts of Russia? “Fairly” Brutal….The Allies were fairly mean….

          America had no control over the Soviet Union for one thing. But wait the Soviets were also Europeans who colonized Asia….so they must be part of the master plan.

          Will the next moral equivalency be that the non sanctioned mistreatment of German Nazi POWS is equal to the Holocaust ?

      • Eidolon says:

        Examples of US atrocities in the Philippines:

        “The town of Titatia [ sic] was surrendered to us a few days ago, and two companies occupy the same. Last night one of our boys was found shot and his stomach cut open. Immediately orders were received from General Wheaton to burn the town and kill every native in sight; which was done to a finish. About 1,000 men, women and children were reported killed. I am probably growing hard-hearted, for I am in my glory when I can sight my gun on some dark skin and pull the trigger.”

        “We make everyone get into his house by seven p.m., and we only tell a man once. If he refuses we shoot him. We killed over 300 natives the first night. They tried to set the town on fire. If they fire a shot from the house we burn the house down and every house near it, and shoot the natives, so they are pretty quiet in town now.”

        Not too different from what the Han Chinese did in Tibet about fifty years later to put down Tibetan rebels fighting for an independent Tibet.

        A major difference? The Filipino rebels won that war. The Tibetans lost.

        • Eidolon says:

          By “won,” I should say “eventually won,” since the immediate result was US victory. But the ill will incurred as a result of the brutal suppression of independence fights would eventually wear out the US’s welcome, leading to the mass of de-colonization that followed the bankruptcy of European empires during the two world wars.

        • Mark says:

          You got your history crossed buddy. The U.S. got the Philippines when we drove the Spanish out. When the Japanese drove the U.S. out, the Philippines already had an independent government and was on its way to full sovereignty, which is why the Filipino people sided with the Americans and not the Japanese, and fought with the Americans when Japan invaded. There are anti Americans in the Philippines to be sure but so many Filipinos fought in the U.S. Army and died side by side Americans, not to mention all the civilians who gave their lives to aid American troops who became POWs

          Yeah there was a brutal insurgency and it was suppressed by the U.S. Army and Marines. The real problem was that with Japan and Europe going around grabbing any weak country (around the same time Japan grabbed Korea) the U.S. could not leave the Philippines.

          • Eidolon says:

            Nice way to rationalize a war of suppression that cost upwards of 300,000 native casualties and which blatantly violated their aspirations for independence because, according to American policy makers at the time, “the Philippines aren’t ready for independence.”

            But then you know what they say: the victors write history. I believe the story of freedom-loving Americans liberating the Filipinos and protecting them from the awful, awful Japanese and Europeans as much as I believe the story of the progressive Han Chinese liberating the Tibetans from their feudal overlords.

            By the way, when is the US going to give Hawaii independence?

            • Mark says:

              Fact is America had put Philippines on path to independence long before the Japanese invaded, and yeah the Japanese invasion vindicated past American policy toward that nation. Gen MacArthur was actually a retired American general and was a general under the command of an all Filipino government when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

              Furthermore, the Philippines is independent now and it was not because they drove out the Europeans or Americans. It was because the U.S. defeated the Japanese Empire, and oh by the way defeating Japan also liberated Korea from decades of Japanese colonialism.

              You just resent the fact that the U.S. has not behaved like Europe or China. I guess it just really pisses you off that the U.S. had to rescue Europe and we left it in better shape than we found it.

              With respect to Hawaii when thousands of Hawaiians are demonstrating in the streets and killing Americans let me know. I hope you grow some balls by then.

              • Eidolon says:

                The US is vindicated because it defeated another empire looking to do what the US had already done? Interesting point of view, there. I’m sure the proponents of the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere would agree, since they were quite the “anti-imperialists” out to free Asians from “white imperialism.”

                As for Hawaii, there were, and still are, plenty of people protesting American annexation. However, immigration has rather diluted their voice, as they make up but a minority on their own land, today. This is just another typical strategy by imperial powers – used more effective in the colonization of the Americas itself, of course.

                And contrary to your beliefs, I am not “pissed” at the US at all. I am simply stating the obvious flaws behind “American exceptionalism,” the belief that Americans are fundamentally superior to other peoples with regards to their historical behaviors.

                • Mark says:

                  once again you are careless with your terms. The U.S. is not an Empire.

                  With respect to “American exceptional ism” The term was started by a Frenchman who studied America in the 19th century, when the U.S. had the only functioning democracy in the world or so it was thought. I suppose since Europe had mostly monarchies or tyrants America was exceptional at that time.

                  I will add that the idea of American being exceptional was a belief held by many European intellectuals who were impatient by the lack of reforms and authoritarian oppression in their respective countries and looked to the United States as a model for reform and governance, better yet a symbol…

                  The point being that you miss use the term and not only Americans were American exceptionalists.

                  With respect to Hawaii if the aboriginal people there want autonomy that is fine with me. As far as I know there are people formally demanding recognition and rights as native Hawaiians. At some point there could be a strong autonomy movement as was the case in Puerto Rico.

                  The annexation of Hawaii was illegal and was the act of a few American settlers who deposed the queen. You forgot to mention Puerto Rico by the way…

                  • Eidolon says:

                    Plenty of people, including leading historians, believe that the US has been an empire throughout history. An empire is not necessarily autocratic, as Great Britain was a parliamentary democracy even as it was a world-spanning empire. If this were not the case, Mark Twain would not have had to form an American Anti-Imperialist League to oppose American imperialism overseas, now would he? The presence of American military bases all over the world – supposedly at the consent of the natives though in reality due to a combination of economic and political coercion – is in direct violation of the concept of sovereignty associated with modern nations, especially when the US uses these bases as a bargaining card in its diplomacy with said nations.

                    But I don’t need to convince you that the US is an empire. A terminological difference is irrelevant with respect to the realities of history. You came to challenge me over the statement that the US has committed great sins to get to where it is today – sins every bit as severe as those committed by China. Yet you have provided no evidence that these sins were not committed. You have not addressed any of my arguments about American colonial history.

                    Fundamentally, America is an European colony in the New World. The basis of its formation was colonialism. It began as an imposition of European authority upon the native populations and ended with full-scale immigration, expropriation, and population displacement. There is no arguing with these facts.

                    • Mark says:

                      You inflate and exaggerate when it is convenient to your argument, and then hide behind terms and faulty history that you do not yet understand. If you discount anything the U.S. did right and amplify everything the U.S. did wrong then we have your world view….typical pseudo European relativist with no balls….the type that could not stand up to Hitler or Stalin. Hold your umbrella high and grow some balls.

                    • Mark says:

                      The U.S. ceased to be a colony when the U.S. won independence from the British Empire. Furthermore there were always non Europeans in the U.S. in significant numbers,and in some cases the non Europeans outnumbered the Europeans.

                    • Mark says:

                      I understand it is fashionable for historians who want to sell books to refer to the U.S. as an Empire. If you turn the clock back to say around 1930 there were countries that self identified as Empires, such as Britain and Japan. The U.S. was not one of them and still does not fit the definition.

                    • Eidolon says:

                      Whereas if you discount anything the US did wrong and amplify everything the US did right, then we have your world view…typical “America fuck yeah!!” nationalist…the type that would’ve supported Hitler or Stalin if only he were American and sung Star-Spangled Banner instead of Horst-Wessel-Lied.

                      Please. As if your opinions aren’t much more black-and-white than mine. An objective view of American history would recognize its flaws, yet every reply you’ve made only convinces me further that all you’re interested in is making excuses.

                    • Mark says:

                      You still don’t get it. Yeah there was a huge debate about imperialism in the U.S. and some presidents flirted with imperialism but they had to contend with elements in congress and in the public that were against it. What America did was not even close to the full scale Imperial madness that was gripping Europe and Japan.

                      If you really had a command of history you would do better to Americas War with Mexico.

                    • Eidolon says:

                      Why would I bring up such minor events of American colonial history? It would be akin to missing the forest for the trees.

                      The very foundations of American territorial acquisition – the Indian Wars, the Louisiana “Purchase,” Oregon Trek, the gold rush, the Trail of Tears – were colonial in nature, no different in effect than anything the Chinese, the Japanese, or the Europeans have ever done, just in larger scale. The way by which Europeans obtained control over half the world – a status retained to this day in the form of ex-colonies like the US, Canada, Australia, and much of South America if not also Russian Siberia – is in effect the biggest colonial enterprise of human history.

                      You tout the end of “Han domination” in China. I ask you, whence come the end of European domination in America?

                    • Mark says:

                      You want to compare one of the biggest mass murderers of the last century, Mao with Americans. That is absurd.

                      Some brutal wars were fought like Vietnam, and people like Kissinger did some things that lead to a lot of people getting killed. The cold war was brutal on both sides.

                      You compare the massacre of 2000 Filipinos which was not sanctioned, with the state sanctioned Chinese execution of 10 million people and the starvation of 20 million more?

                    • Eidolon says:

                      Every time I see people talk about Mao and the people he murdered, the numbers seem to grow. First it was a million, then it was five million, now it’s ten million, and I’ve even seen a hundred million.

                      Perhaps the truth is that demographers simply have no idea. A highly politicized issue like Mao’s atrocities, which has direct relevance to the events of this day, is unlikely to see an objective assessment for the near future.

                      Regardless, if we assume that Mao was a mass murderer, and that he killed more people – ultimately – than any specific American president, can we therefore assume that the two are not comparable?

                      The logic does not follow.

                      A mass murderer is a mass murderer regardless of whether he murders a thousand men or ten thousand men. Morality is not a simple equation of statistical scale, such that if you murder 10 million people.

                      It is not as if any of history’s mass murderers were competing for the most number of people killed.

                    • Eidolon says:

                      That should be “Morality is not a simple equation of statistical scale, such that if you murder more than 10 million people, you are truly an evil bastard, but if you murder 9 million people, you are less of an evil bastard.”

                    • Mark says:

                      If you want to jump around from century to century to make your point that’s fine.

                      It was not hard for Europeans to settle in the new world particularly in North America, because a lot of the Native American population had been decimated by exposure to European diseases for which they had no immunity and that was before they even saw an actual European. The native American holocaust was mostly from disease. The Puritans for example described visiting entire villages where the people had vanished but their pots, weapons etc remained.

                      Furthermore, with respect to North America the settlers formed military alliances with neighboring tribes who used the settlers and their firepower to settle scores or increase their power over other tribes. You describe Native American nations as if they were this monolithic group that were opposed to Europeans. Some tribes were opposed to European settlers others were not. Furthermore, many of the Native American Nations were much stronger than the European colonials such as the Iroquois confederacy. The real picture at many points with respect to North America would be Indian Nations fighting against European nations. The Iroquois lost when they backed the French against the British and then sided with the British during the American revolution. Only with the industrial revolution were Americans able to dictate terms to Indian nations which produced things like Wounded Knee massacre. By that time Europe was slicing up Asian, Africa, and even South America using the same technology. In essence your summary of American history is naive. You portray native American as only victims rather than active players in the cut and thrust of history. Europeans were basically another tribe during a great part of Americas history. Europeans even fought like Indians, and in certain areas lived like Indians. The other factor is yes European populations grew but until the 20th century a lot of the growth was organic and not based on immigration. Compared to Europe sending its armies out to conquer Africa, and parts of Asia in the early 20th century and then setting up imperial administers no comparison.

                    • Eidolon says:

                      The deposition of the Native Americans was neither an unintentional nor an undirected process. The active Indian Removal policies of Andrew Jackson serve as obvious examples of American expansion. Disease was of course a devastating factor for Native American population decrease, but then no one said that a disease-afflicted people no longer possessed any right to their land, now did they? The fact that Native American populations were suffering a crisis at the time, does not at all give European colonists the right to expand at their expense. If anything, it paints the European expansion in an even worse light.

                      As for the diversity of tribal affiliations, the same argument applies to any other colonial target. Do you really think that any of Europe’s victims were “monolithic entities?” Places like India, Southeast Asia, Africa, the Middle-East, Australia, Canada, etc. were all populated by a wide variety of tribes, and this simply facilitated European conquest – since divide and conquer has always been the instrument of choice for historical empires.

                      Not to mention, even if the Indians themselves were no monolithic entity united under a single polity, the American colonists were. And that polity knew exactly what it was doing, and justified it. See Manifest Destiny.

                    • Mark says:

                      The way the Cherokee Nation was treated was wrong, and immoral and there were Americans who opposed it at the time. Since I’m part Cherokee I know all about it. It was a wrong in a certain time and place when oh by the way it was legal in half of the United States to buy slaves.

                      If you want to go back to the 1800’s to excuse what China did in the 1950’s it just proves my point you are a relativist. You will always discount and color certain historical events and amplify others to suit your distorted ends. The trail of tears, wounded knee, and other horrible events in the past including the U.S. are exactly why I object to what China is doing in Tibet presently. With your sham relativism you are nothing more than an apologist for things like Tibetan genocide.

                    • Eidolon says:

                      Stating that the US and China both have a rather sorry history with regards to “native populations” is not a justification of anything. It is a statement of fact, which you contested, but now have plainly admitted since, after all, it is historical fact.

                      I am not interested in this “moral relativist” argument beyond proving that just about every nation has a violent, brutal, and by modern standards morally atrocious history. Where you want to go from there is your own business.

                    • Eidolon says:

                      And to this end, I would point out this part of the very post that you initially responded to:

                      “However, it is doubtless that the US’s current prosperity was achieved through stepping on weaker people. The colonization of the Americas was the largest colonization movement in history, and involved the deprivation of a much larger amount of territory from natives than anything that China has ever done. What can I say, Europeans are more ambitious when they set out to conquer the world.”

                      You have found no evidence to counteract this statement, which again, is simply a fact of history.

                    • Mark says:

                      You misused the term American exceptional ism and wrote that I believed in your idea of what that meant which was not true. You started then started this tangential rhetoric about all nations being equally bad.

                      In your first post you wrote:

                      “I do prefer US ideology a tad more because of its appeals to human rights, which at time factors into policy decisions vis-a-vis rogue regimes. This is called soft power, and it is something that the PRC sorely lacks.”

                      You then proceed to deny or discount any progressive or moral thing that the U.S. has ever done for the sake of your grand theory or argument. You have built a house of cards based on sweeping generalizations, crack pot theory, labels, and faulty facts.

  16. Daily Irony says:

    The United States and China have had a good relationship for the past decade, and its a shame that fearful anti-foreign policy might threaten that now. With the rise of China’s economy, there are some Americans who are always scared of new countries, who don’t want to trade with China, who are just scared of progress. The recession certainly hasn’t helped now that a lot of people are scared of Asians taking their jobs. Now there are Americans saying, “Don’t trade with China, don’t buy their lead paint products!” Great, give me your Chinese-made iPhone, then, while you’re at it.

    China and America both have the right to defend themselves, and that is just what China is doing by increasing the size of its military, to a size still much smaller than the US. If neither side incites violence against the other, we should be fine, but if either side intentionally raises tensions, as have happened recently, that is how something can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Additionally, when the US pressures China, they ought to pressure China on issues with actual American interests at stake. We shouldn’t keep firing blanks on human rights and wasting ammo.

    • Mark says:

      America has reason to have reservations about the direction of China’s recent rise.

      Many are starting to wonder if they have been complicit in creating a monster.

      The friction about trade is just the tip of the ice berg. The U.S. is basically waking up to the fact that the Chinese Communist Party will never reform, and that they are still the same group of ruthless underworld gangsters that murdered 10 million of their own people.

      If the Chinese people do not take out the Oligarchy then a clash with America is just a matter of time.

      • Eidolon says:

        Since the Han Chinese ethnic group is, from your own words, the root of all evil, I see no reason to put any more trust in “the Chinese people” than the “Chinese government.” Evil people must be put down, no? That is the view of good and evil the US has traditionally espoused with regards to all its conflicts.

        • Mark says:

          The key word is as a group. The Chinese people are made up of more than just the Han. When the Chinese Empire collapses many of the groups under Han domination will have the right to self determination. Industrialization actually creates ethnic nationalism where it did not exist before. So in the future as China grows you can look forward to more ethnic groups in China demanding autonomy. Particularly amongst those groups forced into the Chinese Empire in the last 60 or so years.

          I’m really glad you can be so sophisticated about foreign policy when you have had the U.S. protecting you and doing all the heavy lifting for you. Like I said before grow some balls before its too late.

          • Eidolon says:

            Some 90% of the Chinese people are Han, so I fail to see how you have addressed any of my points.

          • SDS says:

            It would depend where that ‘right of self-determination’ you speak of stems from. And whether you mean self-determination in the sense of sovereign independence or just cultural/ethnic recognition.

            Your best bet is to hope the CCP ‘disappears’ and some other form of government comes in. But given the variety of ethnic groups in China, your best bet would be a EU type of scenario.

  17. Cunfucious says:

    First Let me state that no other government on earth ruled for so long over so many people as the empire of China. From the pre-China period of the Xia – 2205-1600bc to the end of the warring states period- 480-221bc-Even taking the last possible date for its foundation- 221bc – it remained in place for over two millennia, during which 157 emperors sat on China’s throne. It took over 5000 years for China to evolve and 200 years for it to fold. When China was weak and the Japanese raped Nanjing in 1937 and the rest of it’s helpless country, America was busy defending the world and 8 years later came to China’s rescue while fighting the Germans and all others trying to destroy world peace. Remember Japan wanted to own China and almost succeeded. Do not forget this fact! Then to make maters worse Chairman Mao made a big mistake by destroying China’s wonderful heritage. All the social & culturural air looms that were erased by the cultural revolution left China with out it’s identity. Very Sad because I love China’s history but stupidity reigned supreme here my brothers. America’s 400 year trajectory is not perfect either but our track record and world resume is far more qualified to handle world affairs even if we are making mistakes along the way. Our intentions are far more mature than China’s but China can become a world example by maturing first as in re-establishing cultural identity to it’s provinces, economically creating a fair place for all rural chinese, Keeping it’s dialects alive, letting it’s spiritual identity evolve without government interference and really understanding that China is not ready to rule the south China seas like it had from the Han dynasty-220ad till 1420. Example for a brief interlude, The great chinese Admiral Zheng He challenged such conservative tendencies. By the end of his fleet’s seven voyages, China had become an unrivaled naval power. As a result of the expeditions, the Emperor in Nanjing (and later Beijing when the capital was moved north in 1420) commanded the fear and respect of leaders throughout South and Southeast Asia. China had established itself as a trade and diplomatic force, its authority backed up by the thousands of troops who accompanied Zheng He on his travels. If countries could be said to “own” centuries—the 20th century is often viewed as America’s; the previous one arguably belonged to colonial superpower Britain—the 1400s were all China’s. Or at least they could have been, had the country not suddenly turned inward.

    There are many theories as to why China curtailed its maritime aspirations in the mid-15th century. The simplest is that the Confucians prevailed. The imperial bureaucracy sought to contain the expansionary ambitions of its sailors and the increasing power of its merchant class: Confucian ideology venerates authority and agrarian ways, not innovation and trade. “Barbarian” nations were thought to offer little of value to China. Other factors contributed: the renovation of the north-south Grand Canal, for one, facilitated grain transport and other internal commerce in gentle inland waters, obviating the need for an ocean route. And the tax burden of maintaining a big fleet was severe. But the decision to scuttle the great ships was in large part political. With the death of Yongle, the Emperor who sent Zheng He on his voyages, the conservatives began their ascendancy. China suspended naval expeditions. By century’s end, construction of any ship with more than two masts was deemed a capital offense. Oceangoing vessels were destroyed. Eventually, even records of Zheng He’s journey were torched. China’s heroic age was over; its open door had slammed shut. “The expeditions wasted tens of myriads of money and grain,” a 15th century Minister of War complained. Roderick MacFarquhar, a sinologist at Harvard University, characterizes the conservative triumph this way: “Yellow River over blue water.” Now China wants to have power over other south china sea travel and shipping lanes. China needs to pay it dues by proving and doing just as good or better than everything that America has done over the past one hundred years. This will not happen in your lifetime ………..so let go. Enjoy being a part of China’s renaissance and let China mature as a nation and also learn how to be ecologically responsible before trying to run the rest of the world.

  18. Octavian says:

    The US has ever right to defend itself and its allies – no matter where that happens to be. The joint military (multi-lateral) exercises are in international waters; which happen to be near the PRC. China cannot make childish demands. The Yellow Sea is not China’s solely and as previous posts made clear the US and any other nation’s vessels can operate in the Yellow Sea (in international waters).

    If China wants to sit at the adult table it can’t just buy its seat – it needs to act accordingly and bring something to the table. The reason the US and S. Korea are even holding these joint exercises is because of N. Korea’s actions. N. Korea is a problem for which China is best positioned to fix. It should do so.

    The Chinese need to stop complaining about other nations and what they do. It needs to start to act and act like a responsible nation – not just claim that it is – because it isn’t. It is a nation of children – from Pres. Hu to the lowest street cleaner.

    • pug_ster says:

      I get your logic:

      US defends itself and its allies – OK
      China defends itself and its allies – provocation of war
      US joint military exercises – OK
      China has its own military exercises – provocation of war
      US making demands to China – OK
      China making demands to US – childish

      • Mark says:

        I get your logic

        Human Rights- no good if China no make money

        Nuclear Proliferation- no good but ok if they have oil China needs like in Iran

        U.S. Making demands- China must ignore because China was once colony

        China making demands- China demands to show China no longer colony

        US joint military exercises- Imperialists pushing around China

        China has its own military exercises- China standing up to Imperialists

  19. Dr. K says:

    Yes, we Americans are an imperialistic people.

    Please tell me who are the US Senators and Representatives from France, West Germany, Japan, South Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Italy, Poland, and all the other countries we LIBERATED.

    Now, please compare that to the Chinese history re: Tibet.

    • Carl says:

      no comment, but remember where you live.

    • Eidolon says:

      China conquered Tibet (but have yet to really colonize it).

      America conquered an entire continent (and have fully colonized it).

      What more do you want.

      • MrChen says:

        You avoid the question. Typical Euro snot type

        • Eidolon says:

          The question was a straw man. The proper response to a straw man is to walk around it.

          Using examples from the last 60 years of US history to show that the US is not an imperialistic country is like using examples from the last 20 years of Chinese history to show that the Chinese have never started any wars.

          By the way, imperialism is defined as “the creation and maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination.”

          It does not necessarily imply formal annexation.

          The US-Iraq relationship is considered by many to be imperialistic, since the US basically calls the shots on such basic things as whether the US army gets to maintain its bases there.

          • MrChen says:

            By the way you have used imperialism and colony interchangeably. The question still stands does the U.S. have a colonial or imperialistic relationship with Japan, Germany etc.

            You only mention Iraq…and you are wrong the U.S. does not call the shots anymore. Facts are facts and you are misinformed.

  20. Mark says:

    枪杆子里面出政权(毛泽东)

  21. Mark says:

    Carl, thanks for the entertainment!
    It is “nationalist” scum like you who gives China the horrible reputation it has around the world, not to mention the laughs to people who are not brainwashed by a regime (or “government” if you will).
    And by the way, I am not American.

    • Mark says:

      Lot of Mark’s on here this is the American Mark Ha Ha

    • Carl says:

      No, but you’re still resort to meaningless curses to make up for your lack intelligence.

      and btw, I’m a Canadian.

      • Mark says:

        Another Chinese national who bought a Canadian passport because he is afraid of his own government.

        • Carl says:

          I’m not sure which part of my answer you brain couldn’t process. I’ll now make it into three words.

          I Am Canadian.

    • Mark says:

      I know what you’re thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I’ve kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you’ve got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk? Clint Eastwood

  22. dongzide says:

    看不大懂你们说什么,我是中国人,我的意见是中国政府视美国为最大威胁是错误的。

    美国在地球那边,中国在地球这边,离得那么远,中国与美国为敌有什么好处???什么都没有,美国也同样如此。

    中国最大的威胁,目前是俄罗斯。
    历史上看,俄国给中国人民带来了深重的灾难,100多年以前,沙俄通过战争和各种不正当手段从中国掠夺走150多万平方平方公里土地,
    日本呢,通过西方侵略军趁火打劫,中国被迫赔偿了几亿两白银。

    每个中国人都将铭记这些。但是现在日本归属美国了,被改造成了一个民主国家,目前看应该不会对中国造成威胁,长远看不一定。

    西方人,尤其是美国和西欧国家,虽然曾经侵略国中国,但从中得到的利益和对中国的伤害并不大,(说起侵略,中国政府,那时候是清政府本身也有不对。)中华民族的危机,历来都是周边异族入侵。 蒙古的元朝、满族的清朝,都是异族入主中国统治,最后别汉族同化。

    现在中国最大的危机就是俄罗斯,即是一个独裁国家,领导人又蛮狠幼稚,远有失地之仇,近有输出共产之恨。如若不尽早想办法解决,两国必有一战。我并不认为俄国会赢。

    美国政府应该正视事实,俄国是个侵略成性的国家,北极熊的暴虐性格永不会改。二战中,如果不是希特勒失策率先攻击俄国,俄国非常可能加入法西斯组织成为和纳粹德国一样的国家。中国则是5000年历史的悠久古国。

    有人说中国侵略越南,我不否认,但是1:当时的周边国家和中国国内局势都很复杂,不是中国侵略越南那么简单就解释了。2:中国共防止河蟹产河蟹党的统治知识中国历史上很短的一段插曲,长远看,中国必将摆脱这种统治,重新恢复我中华文明古国。5000年中国不灭靠的是侵略他国吗,多少强大暴虐的国家都消失了,只有中国还活着。靠的不是残酷和侵略,靠的是中国的和平和文化。

    所以美国应该设法联合中国、孤立俄国。同时间接推进中国的政治改革。这无论对美国、对中国、对世界都是有好处的。而不是像现在这样,以中国为敌,试图通过威胁朝鲜间接威胁中国,这样只会把中国推到俄罗斯那里去,让中俄联盟更加紧密,对谁都没有好处。

    • georgeson says:

      你是不是从冷兵器时代穿越来的?你知不知道现在是公元多少年?

      • dongzide says:

        古今一理,现在的世界局势难道不是和战国时期很相像吗。

        理论可以套用,秦用此统一六国,中国当然可以尝试

  23. dongzide says:

    Because they can make money

  24. Mark says:

    Editorial from PLA daily note no mention of China’a allies?

      Today’s PLA Daily carries on its front page an editorial entitled “a heroic epic and a great patriotic chapter”.

      The editorial reads that September 3 is the 65th anniversary of the victory of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression and World Anti-Fascist War. At this solemn moment, we’d like to extend lofty respect to old soldiers, old militiapersons and old heroes who ever participated in the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression, to Chinese nationals inside and outside the country who ever rendered meritorious service for the victory of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression, and to foreign friends who fought shoulder to shoulder with us on the anti-fascist battlefield in the east sphere, and also extend profound cherishing memory of martyrs who lost their lives in the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression and profound mourning to the innocent people killed by the invaders.

      The War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression is the first national liberation war of which China got a complete victory in the anti-aggression war since modern times. The Chinese people defeated the arrogant Japanese aggressors at a great cost and composed an unprecedented heroic epic in the history of the mankind. This victory became a historical turning point of the Chinese nation from declining into rejuvenating and exerted huge and profound impact on the great cause of people of the whole world in winning the anti-fascist war and maintaining world peace.

      History is a mirror reflecting the reality and a teaching book for the future generations.

      The victory of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression tells us the Communist Party of China (CPC) is the firmest maintainer of the interests of the whole nation and the rear battlefield opened by the military and people led by the CPC gradually became the main battlefield of the War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression. Sticking to the leadership of the Party is the choice of history and people.

      The victory of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression tells us that people is the source of strength and fundamental to victory. No matter what changes occur to the battle form and combat style, giving full play to the power of people’s war still is the treasure for winning local war under information-based conditions.

      The victory of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression tells us that patriotism is the spiritual support for the united struggle of the Chinese people. The PLA is the loyal protector of the People’s Republic of China and the concept of rendering service to the country has already penetrated to the blood of the officers and men.

      The victory of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression tells us that a strong national defense is a reliable support for maintaining China’s sovereignty, security and territory integrity. In the face of the new change, new development and new challenge to the security situation, it is imperative to enhance the sense of anxiety and the sense of mission, unswervingly push forward the modernization drive of the military, expand and deepen the military struggle preparation, raise the ability of coping with a multiple of security threats and accomplishing diversified military tasks with the ability of winning local war under information-based conditions at the core, make efforts to build a strong military commensurate to national security and development interests and play an important role for maintaining world peace and promoting common development.

  25. Mark says:

    U.S. ships in Tokyo bay and massive show of force before Japanese surrender ceremony

    See link

    http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/iCDGAi1oAWmK59Q6bF5N9RGrs0J7CXKhiUphAfHMXxw?feat=directlink

  26. orchid says:

    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/09/stop-shark-finning/

    Down with shark’s fin soup. Imagine, if a billion Chinese stops eating shark’s fin soup even for one week, the world’s ocean would be so plentiful and healthy.

  27. It is cruel, you know, that music should be so striking. It has the beauty of loneliness of pain: of power and liberty. The splendor of disappointment and never-satisfied love. The cruel beauty of nature and perpetual beauty of uniformity.

  28. beavis says:

    So much for China’s “peaceful rise” propaganda and its 5,000 year peaceful history. Look at reader’s comments on any US military related article on websites like sohu(www.sohu.com) and you’ll see tens of thousands of anti-American, anti-Western, sometimes racist (against Obama) comments calling for war with the United States.

  29. Mark says:

    As I write this the a U.S. carrier group is starting exercises in the Yellow Sea. Ops sorry China we forget to ask you for permission Ha Ha.

  30. Lois Huang says:

    This is such stupid propaganda. Yes, of course China is a nation that is trying to rise peacefully.
    If so, then please disarm your missiles aimed at Taiwan and stop pressuring other countries to ignore Taiwan’s existence as though we have no right to claim to be a proper country; even though we have our own currency, government, military, laws and flag. Fuck you, whoever wrote this.

    Also, China is very disrespectful to the U.S. Look at how your president treats ours whenever we try to uphold a meeting. Get your facts straight.

  31. Dear” Bandung Respect for China Army, because China Country number ONE” in Asia, thank you.

  32. CW says:

    If these carrier can dares to come to near to China shore, PLA should send missiles to destory them. Why so scare of these American. ??? O\

    Is China a paper tiger and a coward ??

  33. Johnny Pe says:

    My friend, who is a nearly one generation older Chinese guy (both of us are Chinese living in the Philippines) insists that ancient maps give make China’s claim to the Panatag shoal, Spratlys, etc… valid.

    I told him, “No you are wrong. Might is Right.” Whoever is mightier gets to assert their territorial claim, stop pretending that this is about who is “right” in terms of “history”.

    Who said that: “Power flows from the barrel of a gun”? Or a cruise missile silo in this case.

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